Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Welcome to the Players Association Stitch by Stitch podcast where we talk to current and former players about union history, baseball and the bond that players share across generations.
[00:00:18] Speaker A: Swung on fly ball, center field. Dawson going back onto the warning track. Dawson at the wall. That ball is out of here. And a home run for Rick Monday in the Dodger bench to congratulate Rick Monday, who has hit a two out home run here in the ninth inning.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: In this episode we talk with rick Munday, a two time All Star outfielder who hit 241 career home runs for the Athletics, Cubs and Dodgers from 1966 through 1984.
You probably know Rick from his work as a popular broadcaster with the Dodgers for more than three decades, or that career defining split second decision in the summer of 1976 when he swooped in and rescued the American flag from being burned by two protesters in the Dodger Stadium outfield.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: The way I was raised, it was reinforced by six years in Marine Corps reserves and I started running at them. I don't know if I was thinking about bowling them over, whatever it was, but I could see that the first match, the wind blew it out or it just stopped burning.
The guy ignited the second match about the same time that I got there and the guy thought he was putting it down. I had the flag already. He thought he was putting it down to ignite it.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: Long before that. Rick made history in June of 1965 when the Kansas City Athletics selected him out of Arizona State university with the first overall pick in MLB's first ever amateur draft in New York City.
He has a lot of memories to share, stories to tell and ground to cover.
So let's get started.
So, Rick, welcome to Stitch by Stitch.
[00:02:07] Speaker A: We haven't known one another long enough.
That's the main problem.
Just get that right out there to begin with. I don't know how long, but it's like this is like sitting down and just talking about baseball with friends. I mean, we do it, we do it privately, whether it be at a, you know, a barbecue, whether it be, you know, having dinner with somebody. This is two guys just talking about this game, which is fascinating. And I don't know when it captured your attention.
It captured mine as a kid and watching on television Major League Baseball and on Saturday mornings growing up in Santa Monica, California, you turn it on and with the time change, you know, it was ten o' clock in the morning. So, you know, my mornings were pretty good on the west coast. And then when the Dodgers moved out to la, an opportunity to see them play Initially in the LA Coliseum. And I remember going out there the first time and either Little League uniform or Pony League uniform must have been Little League.
And seeing these guys playing this magical green carpet and throwing the ball harder than I thought it could be thrown, hitting the ball farther than you think it can be hit, and it just captured my attention. I was enthralled with it. And then the dream I think that everybody's had, you know, in the backyard, you know, game, game seven of a World Series and a ninth inning. And I don't think the nice thing is in those dreams in the backyard and in the ninth inning, as a kid like 6, 7, 8 years old, nobody struck out. Yeah, always hit the ball or you always got the guy out that you needed to get out. And that's where the dream started to go. And then did you get older and you get a little bit bigger and you get a little bit better?
And when I was in Pony League, Joe Misbrenner was, was my coach.
And one day he says, hey, let's take a walk in the outfield.
And I'm 14.
And he goes, would you like to play professional baseball? And I mean, that's like asking a five year old, hey, would you like to go in that ice cream store? And I said, yes. And he goes, we need to play in this other league. I went, coach, those guys are old guys. They're like 18, 19. He goes, Exactly. He said, but you need to play in higher competition. He says, you're going to get your lumps, but you're going to get better. You're going to understand.
But I was not the best player at that particular age.
There was another guy that was much better than I was, but he got, I guess, overexposed and just lost the interest in baseball. Mine just kept magnifying and magnifying.
[00:04:37] Speaker B: Yeah. So you were actually born in Arkansas, correct?
[00:04:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, born in Arkansas. But my family, when I was just 11 months old, moved to the west coast, right? So that's where I grew up.
And until I left to go to Arizona State, you know, it was Santa Monica, Santa Monica High.
And in fact, Tommy Lasorda was a scout, right. When I was a senior in high school, right? And he was scouting me.
He was not a manager then, he was scouting me. The Dodgers had a good idea in Southern California, the players that they were interested in signing. Now, this is before the draft. Before the draft, you could talk to any player and any player could talk to any club.
So what the Dodgers would do is that they would send out letters inviting some of the people that they were interested in signing to come and try out for what they called a Dodger rookie team that was coached by Tommy Lasorda and Kenny Myers.
And it was a series of three weekends to try out to make this Dodger rookie team. And then they played like 20 games around Southern California as a team. Well, these are all guys they were trying to sign to begin with. So it was a built in, like, open up the cupboard. Hey, yeah, we're trying to sign him, we're trying to sign him. So let's get them all together. And we played, I think about maybe 20 games somewhere around that area.
And it was great exposure. And Tommy actually had my mother and I to dinner. My mom is single parent, had the dinner. And Tommy was trying to sign me and put on, you know, the sales pitch and put a contract in front of my mother. And she actually had pen in hand, was about to sign it, put the pen down and said, no, Rick needs to go to college.
And Tommy took the contract back, crossed out the number, put a bigger number in there. And my mother had pen in hand the second time, and she put the pen down, says, no, I decided he needs to go to college. If he gets hurt or doesn't make it, he has something to fall back upon. And Tommy took the contract back the third time, crossed out the number, put a number in there. My mother have to work for years in order to equal.
And she had the pen in hand the third time, put it down again because, no, I'm sorry, he's going to go to college.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: And that's how it started. And then eventually when I got traded from the Cubs to the Dodgers is Tommy's first year.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: And I have a photo of the two of us walking away from the cameraman.
And I've got my arm around him. We're both in uniform.
I think it was before a game at Dodgertown in Duro Beach, Florida. And we're walking away. And Tommy told me at that time, he goes, you know, your mom put on the best sales pitch negotiations I've ever seen in my life. I went, what you don't get, Tommy? My mom was not negotiating. She was protecting. She was protecting me.
[00:07:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:28] Speaker A: So that's how it kind of went. But as a kid, there were so many different things to do in Southern California.
And the other teams had representatives that were there, the White Sox, the Pirates, some of the other clubs, too. The Yankees had. People are out there on top of it. So every time you turn it around, there were a lot of programs you could play in.
[00:07:47] Speaker B: You got the bug, though, right, at some point where you weren't just good at baseball, but you loved baseball, right? Is that fair to say?
[00:07:57] Speaker A: I was maybe obsessed by it. The intrigue of the game, the curiosity of what was going on with the game was something that I was fascinated with. To watch these guys that made it look so easy because at a young age you go, how are they able to do that?
Practice, practice, practice. And motor skills. You get older, you get bigger, where you can do some things.
But fortunately, I had some people in my life, a lot of people that were good people that helped me and understand and said, hey, look, you can be better than you think you can be.
That's what Ruben Navarro, our high school coach, told me. Bobby Winkles at Arizona State, I think, to a certain point, challenged us to be better than we thought we could ever be.
And the same way with some of the managers that I had. In particular, if you look at Tommy Lasorda, I mean, we go back to where I was 17, just out of high school, and play for a Dodger rookie team. Let me tell you a quick story about Tommy on that Dodger rookie team. We go to San Diego and we're going to play a Marine All Star team, I mean, Marines.
And we're playing in San Diego. He has me batting second.
The first guy that's batting for us walks on four pitches. And Jerry, there's not a pitch that's anywhere close within those four pitches.
So I'm the next guy, guys at first base. I look at Tommy, who's coaching a third, and he gives me the hit and run sign. So I have to swing at this pitch.
The runner takes off. Here's the pitch. The pitch is up here. I have to swing, I hit it and I knock it out of the ballpark and it hit the scoreboard in right field. Well, Tommy would always, you know, stand there, high five you. Well, that was before high fives. He'd shake your hand and pat you on the rear end as you went by.
Well, as I rounded second base, I looked at third. Tommy's backing off, he's walking away.
And he didn't shake my hand going around, and it kind of puzzled me. Now I'm 17.
Now I sign professionally, right?
I'm with the A's. I'm with the Cubs and now with the Dodgers. It's Tommy's first year. We're in spring training.
And I said, tommy, you're not going to remember this. We had A rain delay, something in spring.
I said, but we played the Marine Corps All Star team down in San Diego.
You gave me the hit and run after the first guy walked. I hit the home run. You're not going to remember it or anything else. I said, but you didn't shake my hand at third base. You walked away like you were mad. He goes, yeah, I remember I was mad. You know why I was mad? No.
The first guy walked on four pitches. Nowhere close. There's 12 scouts in the stands watching you and everybody else. I wanted you to look bad because I figured the guy will throw a bad pitch, they'll say he has no idea of the strike zone. So that's. That's. I learned about the competitiveness games, sort of. Yeah, absolutely. He wanted me to look bad. Yeah, because they were trying to sign me.
[00:10:50] Speaker B: When did you start at Arizona state? I guess 64. 64. That was when you started there?
[00:10:56] Speaker A: Freshman. As a freshman, you could not play on the varsity team. Right. And then as a sophomore, we had a fabulous team.
We wound up winning the College World Series.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: Tell people who were. Who was on that team.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: Sal Bando. Reggie to begin with. Reggie was the year behind. Duffy Dyer was on that team. I think we had six guys off of that particular team that I believe either Triple A or Major Leagues.
It was just a terrific team. And Bobby Winkles was such a strong point.
He told my mother when we went over there, I had never seen the campus at Arizona State until I got there.
And Bobby had told my mom, I will take really good care of your son. And he told that to every family. And he lived up to that.
But we won the College World Series. But during the College World Series was actually the date of the very first draft.
And we're on the biggest stage with the brightest lights we've ever been on.
And the day of the draft, we were going to play one of the late games, and we were actually in uniform, setting the stands down the right field line, which was just a few minutes after the draft had officially taken place. I had some other teams that say, hey, look, we're going to draft you number one.
If this other team doesn't draft you number one, we're going to do it.
Kansas City. The A's, Art Lilly was their scout. He said that Charlie Finley had already agreed they were going to be, but nobody knew how it was really going to transpire. I'm 19. We don't know what's going to happen other than the draft was in the ascending order. So the Kansas City A's had the first pick. What happens if you don't, if you don't sign? What happens if you don't come to agreement? We kind of knew what was going on, but this was new for everybody.
And I remember the looks of some of my teammates that day and the following days that maybe were not drafted high or not drafted at all. And that's why I'm very glad that Major League Baseball now has the draft move after the College World Series, so it does not interrupt the biggest stage and the brightest lights.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: Right.
So it's funny, I did the little Internet sleuthing here and I looked back. It said, among future A's, Ray Fosse went number seven overall to the Indians. Ken Holtzman went to the Cubs, Johnny Bench went in the second round, turned out to be pretty good.
[00:13:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:37] Speaker B: Tom Seaver was picked by the dodgers in the 10th, but didn't sign.
[00:13:41] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:42] Speaker B: Other All Stars included Andy Mastersmith, Greg Nettles, Amos otis and Hell McCrae.
That's the first draft.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: Let me tell you, I showed that night when we played our game exactly why I was the number one pick.
I think I was over four with three strikeouts. And I know every year with great enthusiasm, I try and keep abreast of what's happening with the draft because I know that that number one pick, whatever they do, if they're a hitter and they go 2 for 4, why didn't you go 4 for 4? If you're a pitcher and you struck out 8, why didn't you strike out 12?
Because the focus of attention is going to be there. You're going to be under the magnifying glass because you're the number one pick. Right.
Some of the picks work out, some don't, some get injured. But it's interesting to watch what happens each and every year with that number one pick and the guys that are drafted high and maybe a shock that are not drafted quite as high and then watch what they do in their career.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:49] Speaker A: Because the position you're drafted has nothing to do what your top level may be as far as accomplishing something. You know, it doesn't mean if you're drafted in the 20th round, doesn't mean you'll never get above AA.
It just means there's some other guys that may get more attention initially, but if you take care of business, trust me, you're going to move up the ladder. Swings. That's a pretty well hit ball. Back. Dolph Mundy still going back, turn, groan. But he's still.
He still Held onto that ball.
Reflex action.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: You're being a little bit modest in that you played 19 years. You had over 1600 heads. You had 241 home runs.
[00:15:30] Speaker A: You made what, what are you, my agent?
[00:15:32] Speaker B: Two all star teams. I mean, you, you had a pretty good career.
Maybe, maybe not Johnny Bench, but how many people are Johnny Bench? But you were a big deal at the time, right?
[00:15:44] Speaker A: I don't know. Big deal.
You get attention.
The biggest part that I draw from is, in retrospect, having good guys as teammates.
So fortunate to be on that end of it.
You know, I wear the championship ring, the world championship ring from 81 every day. I know Dusty Baker says I bring it out when I want good luck.
[00:16:09] Speaker B: Well, that's the ring you're wearing now.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: The reason I wear this every day is because I had good luck. I had good luck to be on a superb team with wonderful people. So every, every day I, I wear this, and it reminds me of all the other people that help kind of reach out and grab the brass ring. Because as a kid in that backyard during the ninth inning, when I'm 7 or 8 years old, wondering what it would like to be a big league player, much less to play in a World Series, because there's so many wonderful players that had great careers that never got the opportunity to play in a World Series.
I happen to be with a good group that we got there.
[00:16:48] Speaker B: So nowadays, obviously, there are slots for players. That's televised.
There are advisors through the process.
What was it like then after you got picked, did your mom do your negotiation with you?
[00:17:01] Speaker A: Actually, I actually had an uncle of mine, my uncle Bob.
And you know, as a young guy and test pattern, I have a photo that shows in my mother's house the day I actually signed the contract with the scout Art Lilly and Charlie Finley also flew out to Santa Monica, California, and we were able to do that.
The contract that we signed later on actually got me traded in one degree or another.
I have never come out publicly with this story, but what my Uncle Bob really instilled in me, we put in the contract, was tax free dollars.
And Charlie Finley turned that over to his accountants and they said, okay, well, therefore, this is the amount that we're going to give you.
And the amount was reported.
Well, a number of years later, I start to get letters and say, by the way, you owe X number of dollars. Because this was not tax free in the way. It was split up at Charlie Finley's recommendation.
So we told Charlie, said, hey, we have to make it up. And he goes, no. So I knew I was about to get traded from the A's, because we were really on the precipice of maybe a lawsuit with him.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: So we've talked to a lot of guys about their experiences. This was right about the time 66. The Marvin Miller came in and started the union. They had the first CBA in 1968.
As a young player, were you watching these developments and wondering how they might affect your future financially and in other ways?
[00:18:48] Speaker A: When Marvin came on board, you know, I came up at the end of. End of 66 when he came on board, it was a different. Not to be a play on words, a different ball game.
I started to figure out what I was, what I was making.
My first year. I was playing every day.
It was $44 a game.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: Wow.
$6,000 was the minimum, I think.
[00:19:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it was 6,500. It went up to 7,500, and then a few years later, it went to 1212. 5. Charlie Finley tried to say that those were actually raises when the minimum went up, and it was difficult to kind of deal with him. But I remember one of the strikes that took place when I went to Chicago the first year with the Cubs.
We were playing an exhibition game in New Orleans. Don't remember who it was against.
We played on a field that should have been illegal because it was atrocious. I mean, we're playing on a football field. They put bases down.
The backstop was chicken wire on a portable little rolling thing. The outfield fence with bicycle racks had been put end to end. By the time we took the field that night, the strike had already been called. But they told us, go ahead and play the game.
So we went ahead and played the game. And, you know, we walk off the field and both teams get on a. On a plane. We flew back to Chicago. I forget where the other team went back to, but yeah, a number of. Of strikes that were not the most pleasant.
But I think in understanding a little bit more, because I was in on some of the negotiations in New York as kind of a young player, and then on the American League pension committee for a while as well. But Marvin was marvelous when we went into negotiation, he could almost tell you what was going to be said.
And I remember once we broke for lunch, and right before we went back in, he goes, now look, here's what's going to happen. We're going to go back in. I don't want anyone to roll their eyes. I don't want anyone to gasp. I don't want Anybody just realize that what we discussed this morning, it may be denied this afternoon by the other side. And he was spot on. But he was able to relate to everyone when he went around and talked to the ball clubs. Look, these are the issues.
Here's what I believe is going to be taking place. This is what I believe is the best mode for us to go.
And you need to be united about this thing. And, you know, if there are updates, we'll. We'll talk about it. So there was a. There was one strike that was called when we. When I was with the Dodgers while we were in St. Louis, and I remember is that we didn't have the normal bus taking us to the airport. We were told, look, you're on your own. Even though the Dodgers had their own airplane at the time, Boeing 720B.
And we get to the airport, in fact, we took a city bus, city metro bus to the airport. That much they provided for us. We got there and we had guys that really. We had a couple of guys that could not afford a ticket to fly home, and some, you know, in different countries.
So we pulled some money and, you know, at the last minute, able to get tickets. But I remember we were waiting for planes. Most of us are going back to la, and the Dodger plane had a mechanical, and Al Campanis, the general manager of the Dodgers, was on that trip.
So Al got off with a Dodger plane. He came in, he was trying to talk to the players, and most of the players didn't want to talk to him.
And that was kind of those one things. And he goes, well, why did you want to talk? He goes, well, you got an airplane out there, we're here, but we can't fly back to LA on the plane.
So that was just part of the, part of the strike in the stance of both sides. So, you know, it's one side against the other.
[00:22:51] Speaker B: Did you have interesting experiences in negotiating contracts?
[00:22:55] Speaker A: You never tried to negotiate with Charlie Finley, did you?
[00:22:58] Speaker B: No, I mean, Charlie Finley, because when
[00:23:00] Speaker A: the ball club moved from Kansas City to Oakland for a while, I think he had a total of six people in his front office. Yeah, Carolyn Kaufman was. Was his executive secretary, and for all practical purposes, she was probably the gm.
She handled the contracts. And I remember one contract that was given to me, and I shouldn't have done it, but I put an X across the contract and I wrote back, I said, with all due respect, you must be kidding.
At 44 bucks a game, I thought I had a pretty good stance.
And Charlie got Very irritated with me and called me and let me know.
[00:23:36] Speaker B: He was an interesting guy, wasn't he?
[00:23:38] Speaker A: Well, a bright guy.
[00:23:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: You know, a lot of people don't realize is that he was in the hospital with tuberculosis when he thought up the plan, the insurance plan, and presented it to the ama.
And that's how Charlie made his money. In fact, his office is right off Michigan Avenue in Chicago.
And I do know that, you know, from time to time, playing games on the road, you know, you might go up to the locker room and change, you know, undershirt maybe because it's sweaty during a game.
And I remember in Cleveland once, I went up to change shirts and I saw the phone off the hook to the. To the visiting locker room, and it was placed right by the radio of the Cleveland broadcast.
And I turned to the clubhouse guy and I said, what's going to go. That's Charlie. He calls and, you know, you didn't have the availability, all the electronics, so he would call and they would place the phone next to the local radio, and that's how he listened to it. While he was in his office in Chicago, Charlie called me once and said, get. Trying to remember the exact word, get that bird off my back.
And it was an attorney that was going to represent me in this area. And Charlie was not the least bit pleasant about it.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: So in the course of your career, you start out with the A's and you're obviously identified with them as the 1:1 pick, then you go to the Cubs, and that seemed like it became a real home for you, right?
You love Chicago.
[00:25:22] Speaker A: I enjoy the National League because that's what I grew up watching primarily as a kid when the Dodgers moved out, right. You know, you see the. The National League, so it worked out much better. And I remember when I first joined the ball club, I mean, the guys were. Were terrific.
And Leo Derocher was the manager my first year.
And I remember is that we were going to Yuma, and we were in Yuma and playing, and Leo called the eight regulars into his office in Yuma, Arizona, and he goes, hey, look, you guys can play nine innings today, and then you don't have to make the bus trip to Palm Springs. And we're going to play two games there. What we'll do is play nine innings today and we'll put you on a plane, you can go back to Scottsdale and just work out the next two days on your own. Wonderful.
So we decided, yes, the option was we could play four or five innings, but make the trip and stay on the road for another two.
So we all opted to fly back.
Remember, at the airport, we're waiting. So we got Ron Sando, Glenn Beckert, Don Kessinger, the Enfield.
They're right there. And they said to me, just want to let you know, little heads up, the Leo Durocher you're seeing today will not be that Leo Durocher. When the bell rings on opening day of the season, they were spot on, absolutely spot on, because it was a different Leo Durocher.
[00:27:00] Speaker B: We've done a few of these things, and his name comes up a lot with guys of that era.
[00:27:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:06] Speaker B: And I remember as a kid, he used to appear as a guest on situation comedies like the Munsters and the Beverly Hillbillies. He would always play a scout, you know, the Dodgers.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: He was a big personality.
[00:27:20] Speaker B: He was a personality. He was married to Lorraine Day. I think when we went to New
[00:27:25] Speaker A: York, the story that I heard is that Sinatra had an apartment in the Waldorf Astoria.
And when we went to New York, Leo would stay in Frank's apartment.
But
[00:27:43] Speaker B: what was he like to play for as a manager?
[00:27:45] Speaker A: He hated umpires, and the feeling was mutual. And I think his day, when he woke up, when the alarm. I don't know if he used an alarm clock or not, but if it went off, I think his whole thing was, let's have breakfast, let's get to the ballpark and. And let me irritate an umpire.
We're playing in Chicago. It's cold early in the season, obviously, because Leo was let go. I forget how far into the season, my first year with Chicago, in 72, Jim Hickman was sitting to my left. Jim always had his bat next to him and his helmet next to him. Even sitting on the bench, it's a cold day, he's got his jacket on.
Coming off the field.
Leo says that we're going to have a different pitcher who was scheduled to hit that day in that inning, but he did not name a pinch hitter.
And the umpire comes over, I forget who the umpire was, and says, leo, you got to get a hitter up here. You're going to pinch it for the pitcher. You got to get a hitter up here right now. Let's go. And Hickman turned to me and goes, watch. I'm going to get blamed for this.
What are you talking about?
He turned around and Leo says to the umpire, I told him to get a bat. Hickman, get a bat. You're the hitter.
So Jim gets up, and again, his bat's right there. His helmet's right there. So he takes off his jacket, he puts his helmet on. He grabs his bat. With the other hand, he has a jacket.
As he's leaving the dugout, Leo is standing right here, like, where you are. And he goes to. Leo goes, here, hold this. I'll be right back.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: I guess if you looked at Leo through the right lens, he could be amusing.
[00:29:31] Speaker A: You know who was really amused by him was Joe Pepitone.
[00:29:33] Speaker B: Oh, really? Okay.
[00:29:34] Speaker A: Wonderful teammate.
[00:29:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:36] Speaker A: But Pepe was one of the first guys that introduced hair dryers into the locker room, right? Yeah. Yeah.
I think that drove Leo a little bit nuts, too.
[00:29:45] Speaker B: Yeah, Leo was old school.
[00:29:48] Speaker A: Yeah. And then some. I'm not sure what he's doing out there. It looks like he's gonna burn a flag. And Rick Monday runs and takes it away from him. And so Monday, I think a guy was gonna set fire to the American flag. Can you imagine that? And Monday, when he realized what he was gonna do, raced over and took the flag away from him.
[00:30:11] Speaker B: A moment that you probably a day goes, doesn't go by that you get asked about is your act of valor and saving an American flag at Dodger Stadium.
What do you think of most when you think of that day?
[00:30:30] Speaker A: What I think of most is the fact that I happen to be in a spot to do something about it.
The way I was raised, it was reinforced by six years in the Marine Corps Reserves.
76 when this event took place at Dodger Stadium while I was with the Cubs.
At the time, I think I was five years removed from being in the Marine Corps reserves.
And I see these guys come on the field. It's not the first time that I've had people observe people come on the field, but you don't know what their motive is. Is it because they're trying to win a bet if they had too much to drink, they don't like you. Do they have a banner they're going to fly? Who knows?
So I saw the guys come on the field, and one of them, I could see, had something under his arm but couldn't make out what it was.
They ran past Jose Cardinal, who was playing left field that day, and they went into shallow left center field.
And then I saw what was under the arm of one of them was an American flag, and they spread it out on the ground.
And then he knelt down beside it and pulled out something. I could see the reflection of the sun on this Sunday afternoon game, and it was a huge can of lighter fluid and began to douse it. And I was mad I was angry. I was angry that they were there and I was really angry that it was an American flag.
And I started running at them. I don't know if I was thinking about bowling them over, whatever it was, but I could see that the first match the wind blew it out or it just stopped burning.
The guy ignited the second match about the same time that I got there and James Rourke, who was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize, took the photo.
And the guy thought he was putting it down. I had the flag already. He thought he was putting it down to ignite it. And I remember as I could feel the dampness of this lighter flu, it was kind of a weird feeling. Anyway, it was not on fire.
And I ran it and gave it to Doug Rowe, who was a pitcher with the Dodgers. Tommy Lasorda was the third base coach for the Dodgers at the time. You know, he became the full time manager the following year.
And Tommy ran past me and he was yelling and spewing words that you might hear from a longshoreman on a bad day.
And they escorted the guys off the field, they were fined $80, put on two year probation. And I asked for, after the game, I said, look, could I have that flag? And someone says, well, there's going to be a legal issue here. And I said, I would still like to have that flag. So I don't remember. It was a couple of months later, I think the Dodgers came into Chicago and Al Campanis presented me with that flag after they had adjudicated.
The two guys are on the field and happy to say that that flag still has a life.
And my wife Barbara Lee and I take it around the country and do various things and over the years and probably every week I get letters about it, proud of the fact that I was close enough to do something about it.
You know, I don't have a mission or anything else to try and improve the point. But that flag represents a lot of rights and freedoms that you and I have and everybody has. Now, how we handle those rights is up to us and the people that we, that we put in position.
But for someone to desecrate the flag to me is, and having proudly served in the Marines, really is a form of treason.
And it disrespects those that have given not only the ultimate price to protect the rights and freedoms of that flag, it's a piece of cloth. But what it represents and the people it represents and their families to me is a horrible demonstration to try and do. And I'm happy that I was there close Enough to do something about it.
[00:34:28] Speaker B: And you talked about your. You were in the Marine Reserves for five years.
[00:34:31] Speaker A: Six years, yeah.
[00:34:32] Speaker B: Six years. That was during Vietnam. Right. So was that.
I've talked to other players, Jim Lomborg and I think Tom Seaver, Rico Petrocelli. That was fairly common, I think, wasn't it?
[00:34:46] Speaker A: Dave Duncan and I were in the same platoon, Platoon 185 and Bob Watson was in another platoon. In fact, he was like one row over a different set of Quonset huts while we were at MCRD San Diego.
And it was right after I signed, I went to Lewiston, Idaho, finish out the season. Then Dave and I, right after that season, the minor league season ended.
We wound up with our feet in the yellow footprints at MCRD San Diego. And we started, we got out.
I think spring training had already started when we finally got through with our six month active commitment.
And then we would have to fly back every month if we were on the road to attend the meetings and then go to two week summer camp. On top of.
[00:35:35] Speaker B: What did your training consist of?
[00:35:39] Speaker A: Just about everything really. Because Marine, if one goes down, the other can come in and follow.
[00:35:46] Speaker B: I mean, you were training like a Marine.
[00:35:48] Speaker A: Let me tell you something, you were
[00:35:49] Speaker B: not a ball player.
[00:35:51] Speaker A: I learned a lot about discipline and teamwork playing the game.
You learn a great deal about teamwork and discipline when you're in the service, in particular in the Marine Corps, because you learn to trust that guy in front of you and behind you and to either side and even those you can't see because they know they can depend upon you.
And I think that helps too. Is it on the baseball field?
You know, it's a game, but to play it the correct way, you've got to have trust in that guy and know where he's going to be. Cut offs and relays with the good teams. I didn't have to worry about, well, where's the guy going to be? I knew exactly where they were going.
[00:36:39] Speaker B: And I think I've read some quotes where you talked about as a player and as a Marine reservist. You visited hospitals and saw guys.
[00:36:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:50] Speaker B: And how that made an impression on you when you saved that flag.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: Correct. Yeah.
Stopping the flag from being desecrated may have been a voice for all those people.
My wife, Barbara Lee was one of the early people that ever arranged to get a team to go to Walter Reed Army Medical center before they moved that facility to Bethesda and to go there and to take the flag with us and some of the military that were there knew that we had this flag, and a lot of people knew about the incident.
There was one young lieutenant that had been there for a period of time that had been injured, and his wife was there also, and with a physician, wonderful surgeon that we became friends with at Walter Reed, got us in there, and we were able to spend time with this one lieutenant. And he goes, understand you have the flag that you took away? And Barbara Lee said, yes. Would you like to have a photo? He said, yes, I'd like to do that. And about that time, he turned to the dock and he goes, doc, I'm starting to get some shrapnel come up, and I'm starting to bleed here. Mrs. Mundy, get the flag.
And she said to him, it's okay if you bleed on it.
And this young man said, no, it's not.
I will die protecting what that flag represents, but I will not bleed on it.
[00:38:30] Speaker B: Just put in perspective the magnitude of what this moment, 50 years later, people still remember it, what it means to you.
[00:38:40] Speaker A: And other people, they remember the moment. And I think they remember the moment because it involved a symbol of our rights and freedoms and the people that represented it.
A number of years ago, my wife and I were in Charlotte and was honored to be in a parade.
And as we went through the parade and we had gone there and we took the flag with us, and we had a couple other things that we were doing there on top of, and some of it was with the military and along the parade route.
I mean, we have no idea how much we affect people.
Same way with players. You have no idea how much you affect people when you come out and you interact with them.
But along the. The parade route in Charlotte this day, there were people that held up shadow boxes with folded flags.
And one of them would say, this was my father.
In other words, this was my husband. This was my brother.
That means a lot.
That's more than just, well, you had to run on the field. No, because that day represented that father and that husband and that wife.
And it's something that I'm very thankful that I didn't stand there and just watch it happen. One night I was thinking, what if I just stood there?
Which one of my Marine Corps drill sergeants would have come up and say, marine, why'd you stand there?
It doesn't take a whole lot of time to act upon what you think is right.
And that Sunday afternoon, what I did, my thinking was right.
[00:40:28] Speaker B: So obviously, you had this amazing baseball career, and what you got done in 84, I think. Was it.
Did you go right into broadcasting?
[00:40:38] Speaker A: No, I actually was doing it ahead of time.
Four or five years before I retired, I was working at ABC Television in Los Angeles during the off season, shadowing crews around, watching them do interviews, how you edit voiceovers, time.
And I did that for a number of years. And then fortunately, something opened up right after I. I retired with the predecessor to Fox, it was Metromedia, and went over there and anchored the sports for four years and did a pre game television show for the Dodgers.
And then there was an opening in San Diego. Went down to the Padres for four years and then came back to la. I was doing both the Padres and the Dodgers pre game and post game.
And then, unfortunately, the passing of Don Drysdale and Peter o' Malley called me and said, would you be interested? And I said, yes.
So joined the ball club. And greatest advice I ever got in under trying conditions because I knew Don.
Don Drysdale actually touched my family, too. So it meant even more to me because when Tommy Lasorda, if I go way back out of high school, Tommy Lasorda brought my mother and I to Dodger Stadium to watch a game one night and we met Walter o' Malley went down the locker room, I did, and I walked in and just briefly met a couple of guys.
And Tommy asked my mother, hey, look, can I get you.
Can I get you an autograph or something? She said, I would love two autographs. I said, really? Who?
Sandy Koufax and Don Drysdale.
And Tommy got those. And my mother had this photo of both of them signed.
And then my mother moved to Reno years and years later.
And I'm telling the story about my mom and me signing. And Tommy was trying to get me to sign.
And Don heard about the fact that I said, someone asked in the interview, well, does your mother still have those photographs? And I said, well, she has Sandy's, but somehow she lost Don's. And Don found out about it.
And Don saw me in the press box and he had a baseball and he had it already made out to my mother.
And he found out her name. Nelda.
[00:43:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:19] Speaker A: And I gave that baseball to. So Don touched my family and the fact of his passing.
I joined the ball club in New York a few days after, and I remember getting off the bus to go to the stadium and Vin Scully just asked me, hey, wait a second. And he turned and goes, look, this is trying times for all of us.
The only advice I'm going to tell you is just be yourself.
Greatest advice you can have, because you can't be somebody else.
And that was it. But, you know, for Vinnie to say that, you know, it's really kind of weird, is that I started. I told somebody the other day I had been in the big leagues for a number of years, and I get traded from the Cubs to the Dodgers.
And my mother finally said to me after a game, you know, you finally made it.
And I said, mom, I've been here for a while. She says, yeah, but Vin Scully introduced you on the air. I went, mom, what's the story? I mean, I've been around for a while. He goes, yeah, but Vinnie, in the past, he was a visiting player. He goes, no, welcome to Bigley. So my mom, for all these years, until I came to the Dodgers and she heard Vin Scully announce her son's name, I'm not certain that she realized that I was truly in the. In major leagues, right? But with Vinnie said it now, things were fine.
[00:44:50] Speaker B: Can you articulate what Vin Scully meant to baseball and to obviously, fans in Los Angeles and what it was that made him what he was?
[00:45:01] Speaker A: He was our friend.
Whether you met him or not, he was your friend.
He owned the English language. We speak words then he painted words.
[00:45:12] Speaker B: What would you say to young kids in terms of how you'd like them to think about baseball and not only on the field, but, you know, with the activities, with the union and what they can leave to the next generation?
[00:45:30] Speaker A: I think if anything, leave the game even better than it was when you came into it.
You know, in overall, their major league career is a small snippet of their life.
You know, there's going to be an after and afterwards, there's going to be an adjustment period in there. There are many things that I miss about not playing.
The excitement of the unknown and the challenge of it, not knowing what was going to take place.
But understand is that, you know, this is a game that is shared.
And remember the look of that youngster if you sign an autograph or if you say hello or if you give them a high five, it's a special moment for them. It's another moment for you. But how many moments do you have left to play?
You know, you start to think about all the players that have played this game. It's what, just over 20,000 have played at the major league level.
They represent the game.
You're not the first, you're not the last. You're one of many.
Leave it in better shape than when you got it.
[00:46:47] Speaker B: Thank you to Rick Monday for sharing. So 60 years of baseball memories with his typical class and good humor. This has been an episode of Stitch by Stitch, connecting players from the past, present and future.
