Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to the Players Association Stitch by Stitch podcast where we talk to current and former players about union and baseball history and the bond that players share across generations as they stand united in pursuit of a common purpose.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: Home run by Reggie Smith and the Dodgers are back on top three to ten.
[00:00:28] Speaker A: In this episode we talk to Reggie Smith, a seven time All Star outfielder and 1981 World Series champion with the Los Angeles Dodgers. Reggie has always been a quintessential renaissance man. He played seven musical instruments, obtained his pilot's license and dabbled in everything from cooking to photography.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: I used to say whatever I dreamed about as a kid I wanted to experience and fortunately baseball at the time was providing me the economic, economic mobility to be able to do those things.
[00:01:02] Speaker A: After hearing Marvin Miller speak as a young player with the Boston Red Sox, he became a strong advocate for the union and a powerful voice in leadership. He's seen it all and he's gracious enough to share some memories with us today.
A lot of guys look back on the, their minor leaguers thing, you know, experience and they're all like the stuff, nostalgic about it. But you also probably dealt with some racial things too. I can't imagine it was too glamorous.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: It was tough, you know, especially as a young player, 18 year old coming out of Los Angeles and having grown up where, you know, you could pretty much go anywhere you want it without any problems and going to and spending time in the south there in Wythfield, Virginia, there was quite a shock to me. And you know, I had been warned by my dad and parents things were going to be different. And me being young and naive said no, you know, this is 1963, things are, have changed. And well, like I said, the very first arrival in Kingsport, Tennessee and landing there on my way to catch a bus and trying to get a cab to go to where I was supposed to meet and couldn't get a cab and had to wait on Black Clap Clap company to come and pick me up and take me and drop me off at the bus station to wait for my bus and then going into a Rexall drugstore to grab something to eat and sitting at the counter and then after finished eating the waitress broke the plate. Yeah, I experienced those times, some tough times. But you know, I later on thought back about what it was going to take and let that be motivation for me to, to thrive and make it to the major leagues knowing that it was going to be difficult. But Jackie and those that came before me had paid that way and at least I owe that to them to. To be able to stick it out to. Certainly they did, and they did it for me. So I wound up having a major league contract at 18 years old.
And things were different somewhat, a little bit because they sent me to northern cities to play. They didn't send me back to the South. So I was able to move fairly quickly. But still occasionally there you face some difficult situations, but, like, as we started to get to the major leagues and understand what that was about and how important it was to honor those that came before us, to. To make it possible for us to do and achieve the things that we were able to achieve through staying together and honoring the. Those that came before me, like honoring Jackie Roy Campanella, Don Newcomb, Monty Irving and many of the great African American players that came before us.
[00:04:19] Speaker A: I. I do have to ask. Look, and you said we, but that. This just struck me. I assumed she broke the plate because they didn't want anybody else using the plate.
[00:04:29] Speaker B: Yes, that's exactly what I meant. They weren't. Didn't want anyone to eat behind a black player or. Or black individual at that time. They had to service, but they didn't have to eat at, you know, behind us. Even going into restaurants and making those long bus rides, not being able to get food, going to restaurants where they would bring your food out to. And sometimes you had to check it because they'd spit in your food and you'd go for hours without eating it. It was not easy, not easy at all. It was what it was. And you do the things that you do to make it better. You know, you don't. You don't stop doing the right things. You don't stop saying what needs to be said, and you don't stop doing what needs to be done to. To make it better. And I fell again. That's been my. Pretty much my purpose in life is to.
To leave this place better. As Jackie said, you know, the effect of a life is not as important as to its effect that it has on others.
That. That was his legacy, and I wanted to live that.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: Since you've mentioned Jackie a couple times, and obviously it comes up in a lot of things we do. Can you maybe kind of talk about his personal impact on you, what you feel like his impact has been on the game and society? And have you actually. Did you actually have someone with the Dodgers, personal interactions with him?
[00:05:59] Speaker B: Yes, I had a chance to, to meet Jackie. It was a game that was played out in L. A to honor Martin Luther King after his passing and they brought players from both the American League and National League. And we played a game and there were white players and black players to. To play in that game in L. A. And it was during the announcements and they were introducing the players. They also brought Jackie out and was able to say hello to him. But after the game and flying back, I was flying back to New York. Coming down the aisle was Jackie and his handler because he had started to lose his vision a little bit at that time and came down and sure enough, he sat in the aisle seat directly across from me.
Chance, you know, he was my boyhood idol.
I know now how kids feel when they come up and they meet a ball player, how timid and a little shy that they are.
That was me.
Here's my boyhood idol sitting next, next to me on the plane. And we had what, a five hour flight. It took a minute, but I, I said, oh, Mr. Robinson, my name is Reggie Smith. And you know, I've at margin. And he turned to me and looked me and he says, I know who you are and I know what you represent and keep it up. You know, that meant so much to me and it's something that I carried with me throughout my career that I was honoring him something and learning to fight for what was right. It was that impact of meeting my boyhood idol and having him say he knew who I was and what I stood for and what I represented. He gave me the courage to continue to do the right things and as my resolve to fight against what I believed in, always fight for what I believed in.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: Finally, on Jackie, like as, what do you think people should remember about him?
[00:07:59] Speaker B: That he, he was a kind man. He. He was a man that had been tormented but did not let it stop him from achieving the things that he wanted to achieve it and allow him to go about the way that we should treat one another from that summit and having the courage and the strength to do and not only say, but live what he believed in.
[00:08:25] Speaker A: In the last half of the second inning, Robinson gets the first hit up
[00:08:29] Speaker B: four, it's a homer.
[00:08:30] Speaker A: Into the left field stand. One of the things obviously we're, we're trying to look at is when we look back at the start of the Union in 1966 with Marvin Miller, you actually came up very much at the, like at the end of that year in September, that was the time when Marvin was kind of going around to camps and maybe some guys were at least skeptical or wanted, had questions about a union.
What was the environment like then?
[00:08:59] Speaker B: I, by the way I was one of those players from, from that standpoint of, of wanting to know I had remembered as you, my dad working for US Rubber and there would be strikes that they had and being, being a part of the union. And at times he would, he would talk about wishing having had more say so in the decision because I was, I was number seven in a family of eight children. So when you're out of work, you have to find something to do. And it was out of that, that learn to start other businesses. You know, like I sold eggs all over Los Angeles at that time. We sold watermelons, we sold sweet potatoes, different things like that to help to support the family. So union at that time, I was a little afraid one of the first meetings when Jim Lonbor came in from a meeting that they were asking that we all agree. And I felt that a unilateral decision was being made by the player reps, you know, was to agree that we would either strike or not go out or, or be locked out. So I needed more information. So when that first vote went around, I, I voted no.
I need more information. I wanted more information. And then when it was explained to me, well, then I was on 100%. And from that time on was not afraid to even become a player rep because that was one of the things that they used to say that's, that's your quickest way out of town and you know, is become a player rep. This was the right thing to do. I, I was, I was willing to make the sacrifices that was necessary for us to achieve the things. Because you learned about basically being chattel. You learned about the reserve clause and the things that were later explained to what they were and how did we could just be released at any time and not really knowing what your true value and what you're worth was to an organization.
And they controlled all of that.
You had little say. But at the time, you had to be willing, okay, if this is what it's going to take, then I'll go get a job if I have to, because my dad did that. I learned that part of it. And I was never afraid, afraid of failing and being able to at least provide for my wife and I. And then later, you know, when my son came along and then later my daughter, I always had always believed that no matter what, I'd find a way to provide for them, but I would not be abused in any way. And at the time I felt that's what ownership and management were doing. They were abusing us.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: Can you Just sort of remember what it was like when you were in 1966. You played a few games.
Did you have to work in the off season?
Like, what do you remember about the early days? That seems like the stone age to these kids now.
[00:12:03] Speaker B: Well, when I just put it this way, when I first came along, when I first signed, the minimum salary was $6,500. And then when I ultimately did get to the major leagues, there coming up at the end of 66, it was, it was 7,000. So you had to go in and negotiate that. And you were dealing with skilled negotiators. So you were at a severe disadvantage as a player at that time when. And that had no rights and you had to pretty much accept whatever they were going to give you unless you were willing to, you know, sit out or to say, I'm going home.
And those were your options. Or, or accept what they paid you. Just, just kind of go back a little bit. In the minor leagues, they were playing players. $250 a month, 300amonth, and you would get a 25 raise. That mean not a month, a 25 raise.
So this is, this is how things were. And we had to find a way to make that better. And Marvin showed, showed that way. And so in 1960, if I'm not mistaken, Marvin called a meeting and explained more in detail to what was going on. And the one thing I'll never forget him talking about was that we needed to divulge to the players association our salaries. That was one of the ways that ownership was able to control players and control salaries because no one knew what the.
Everyone else was making. And in doing that, it gave Marvin and the executive board more information that, that would help us in the long run. So that when you go in there, the surprise would be, well, I know you're paying so and so this much. And I'm, you know, I had just as good a year, if not better, which ultimately, you can see where I'm going with it. That led to arbitration. That's what, you know, stuck out at that time of starting to learn what our true value was.
[00:14:18] Speaker A: Information was power, I guess, right?
[00:14:21] Speaker B: Well, yes, especially good information.
Like I'll never forget Peter o' Malley to say, he said, I need good information because good information, I can make better decisions.
[00:14:31] Speaker A: Do you remember sort of your first encounters with Marvin and listening to him and what was it about him as a person and a leader that you would like people to know?
[00:14:43] Speaker B: Marvin, when he addressed you in terms, he act like he, he had known you all your life. He'd known you all along. He, he was dynamic in his ability to speak and, and give his talks. He knew when to talk louder. He knew when to, to. To speak softer. And he knew how to draw you in.
[00:15:05] Speaker C: The secret of the success of the Major League Baseball Players union, you know, I said it's not a secret, the solidarity of that membership. Through the years, I've worked for many unions and know about many others, and I don't know of another union with a record like that.
[00:15:21] Speaker B: I really enjoyed being around him because he gave you the feeling and sense of this guy knows what he's talking about. And he, he has an inner toughness and that's what he had about him. And he had that ability in negotiations that seemingly didn't allow him to take anything that was said negative about him. And there were some negative things that he didn't take personal.
[00:15:48] Speaker A: Dude, I mean, I've read some things. What did you see that they were doing to try to maybe malign him?
[00:15:55] Speaker B: It was more, I think, a PR stunt on their part to take down the leader. If they could make him appear weak in front of the, you know, his constituency, the players, that, that would be a way to break not only him, but break the union.
[00:16:14] Speaker A: When the union started to sort of take off and gain traction, what did you sense that maybe was different in the mood? Maybe players kind of felt like we're empowered or maybe we have a little more value than we've been led to believe or what. Did you kind of notice a change of mindset among players?
[00:16:33] Speaker B: Yes, because once it was explained to us what was going on and you had a sense of if we want things to be better, we had to even look beyond what was happening now and ourselves to make the game better for those that, that were going to follow us. So you had to say that this is what we're going to do and this is why I'm doing it, and remove any selfishness and say, this is why I'm doing this. You have to have a purpose in life to achieve a goal. And I think those of us that came along at that time, that was our purpose, to make it better than we found it.
[00:17:17] Speaker A: You said some people thought that being a player rep might have been your ticket out of the game.
When did you, when did you become involved in the union and in what capacity? And was there somebody like another player or two who maybe kind of brought you into the fold?
[00:17:33] Speaker B: I'd like to say it was osmosis. Being around it and seeing the things that were happening just bolstered your resolve to know that things were getting better because you saw minimum salaries go up. Players by knowing what their values, their true values were compared to other players. Yeah, there were improvements being made. Our efforts starting to take hold and make improvements, but still knowing that there was a lot more that needed to be done and achieved and achieved and a lot more sacrifices that it was going to be required for, not only for us, but those that were coming behind us.
[00:18:16] Speaker A: Yeah, so the first strike, I guess was 1972, I believe it was for almost two weeks. I think there were pensions issues, but that was like the first one.
And how much of the uncharted waters was it and how much were players, I don't want to say scared, but how much were they? A little bit sort of like this is serious and we don't know what's going to happen.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: Yeah, it was, it was a little nerve wracking. You know, you had find your own way home and not knowing when or if we were going to go back to work because you know, like, like most strikes, depending on how long they last, there's going to be a little, little suffering. But at the same time you, you had to make that decision that if this is what we're going to do, you know, you had to be willing to, to make the sacrifices and do whatever it was going to take for you to provide for your families. And yeah, it was scary, you know, tough to go and tell the wife. I said, hey, you know, not going to have a paycheck coming in. But see, back, back at that time you were paid on a yearly basis, that, that being just the course of a baseball season over that period of time when the season started because you didn't get paid in spring training till the end of the season, that was it. So you either had to have saved enough money from the season or you knew that you had to go get a job in the off season and had to do that. We did that. But eventually it got to where just being able to negotiate a contract where you could get paid year round, little things like that that we were able to do through negotiation with the players associate that that was huge. So it provided a buffer from the end of the baseball season to the end of the year to, you know, you are the first of the year so that you could survive. Yes, you still had to get a job, but you know, you still had that cushion there.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: Do you remember the jobs you had starting from when you get to the major leagues in the off season?
[00:20:26] Speaker B: What did you do from like around, I'd say October to December, I worked at a car dealership to sell cars and I didn't do very well at it. I, I didn't sell a car but I had the ability to, to speak and I was being requested to do speaking engagements, ultimately going out and doing those two or three times a week. And then I wound up getting a job with Carling's Brewery there in New Eng Speak on their behalf and I would do speaking engagements around New England.
[00:21:04] Speaker A: Yeah, so I mean, but that was for most of your career, I guess. Did you then I guess you went to the Dodgers. So I don't know by then during
[00:21:15] Speaker B: that time with the Red Sox, you know, I had been able to get a year round contract and you know, because my, my salary was starting to double pretty quickly and it allowed me to not have to go to work any off season. And I started taking online, not online but to call correspondence courses at that time in the offset to, to educate myself because I had had made a promise that I would go back to school and get a degree, a college education.
Right. The signing. See I was going to go play football and my dad got sick and at the time you, there was no draft so you could sign with anyone that would give you a contract.
So I made that decision and my parents let me do it. My dad wasn't too happy about it at the time, but he let me do it and it turned out it was the right decision.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: When I was looking up a story about you, they talked to Davey Lopes at one point and he said about you. He was very intelligent in everything he did. He worked hard in the off season at something new every year he became a pilot. One year it was an airplane pilot and he got his license. One year it was photography. Then it's cooking. Amazing. Every spring we'd ask ourselves what's coming next. And I think I also saw you said that you played like seven musical instruments or something, is that right?
[00:22:41] Speaker B: I used to say whatever I dreamed about as a kid I wanted to experience. And fortunately baseball at the time was providing me the economic mobility to be able to, to do those things. But I said if I'm going to do it, I want to learn as much about it as I possibly can so that you know, to be good at it. That was my approach to pretty much anything that, and I still live by that to educate myself that there be a plethora of things that I could communicate with people about the whole conversations with them intelligently enough to at least let them know that I do have an interest in it. But, and, but as well as having some knowledge about it.
[00:23:24] Speaker A: Reggie, you, you. So you were, it seemed like you were pretty involved, you know, I guess. Were you actually a rep with the Dodgers or who were you a rep with?
[00:23:33] Speaker B: No, I didn't, I didn't become a player rep. And at that time it was an alternate with. Until I was with the St. Louis Cardinals when I, when I went over to St. Louis for the two years there. And I'll never forget Bob Gibson telling me, you're not going to be here long. So they called me a clubhouse lawyer, the whole, you know, the whole bit. And is that. But if something was wrong, I, I didn't hold back. I spoke up, I said something. And at that time, especially being a young African American player there, you were supposed to be seen and not heard. So. Yeah, so I was not afraid and I was going to speak up. And then I, I was not afraid to be a part, Wanted to be a part of the union in a way that I understood what was going on, but hopefully being able to communicate these things to, to my teammates.
[00:24:31] Speaker A: The, the union has always been really good, it seems like in terms of players being unified, you know, at the end. But the process of getting there sometimes can be a little messy and contentious. Right? Like, can. Do you remember some of these stressful situations, like 1981, where you missed, you know, that you had the split season where maybe these meetings got a little bit, you know, guys might have been going at it with each other. Like, how important was that to be able to have everybody air their own opinions?
[00:25:06] Speaker B: You know, it was because it was here at the Marriott in LA during that time, and we kind of aired it out at that time. It was, it was contentious. I'll never forget standing up and letting them know that, hey, I, I know both sides. Those of you who were worried and upset about, you know, not receiving your, your paychecks, and those of you who were willing to sacrifice those poor and said, I, I've been on, I've been on both sides. And I said we just needed to listen, but more importantly, we needed to stick together. Because all through the time that we were forming the union, they were always there. There was always some that was trying to break the union, so we couldn't be afraid, but we had to stick together. And there were a lot of players. And then when they did wind up causing that strike, I paid out of my pocket for several players to get home because we were left stranded there in St. Louis at the time. But it was willing to do that because I knew in the end if we stuck together, we would all benefit in some way.
We needed to take care of the people that we had kind of rode on the backside at that time.
And the pension was important because at some point you might be that guy that needed it. And then when at age 45, when you hear of guys that were only still getting like $240 something dollars a month for their pension, that, that, that, that was huge for them and they, the sacrifices that they made to, to get us where we are now.
[00:26:57] Speaker A: Another guy who was a seminal figure in baseball history and has always been a big topic with us is Kurt Flood, 1969. He challenges the reserve clause.
How closely were you and other guys following this? How much did you become sort of aware of how maybe what he sacrificed with this reserve clause challenge?
[00:27:18] Speaker B: First of all, we did pay a lot of very close attention to it, but Kurt did what some of us had to threaten to do. That if they don't give me 101, I'm not, I'm not going to, to show up.
You know, you had to be. If I have to go home and sell eggs, I remember saying, if I have to go home and sell eggs, I'm going to find a way to support my family. But Kurt did it, as it turned out, you know, he, it was the beginning of what ultimately was a huge, huge benefit to the players that, that they're still experiencing to this day. That, that he did make that sacrifice along with Andy Messer, schmidt and Dave McNally there, that, that, that, that they did in Marvin having the courage, along with Don Fear to, to take it all the way to the Supreme Court. And I, the story that I told you about in, in the beginning around until I had a better understanding. Ask questions, get the information that you need. I'd be more than happy to speak to young players because I was there. I was there from the beginning and I went through all of those things and know how it came out on the other end. I know the trepidation, any fears that they may have, but you have to learn to put that aside. It's like stepping in that batter's box and, you know, a guy's throwing 100 miles an hour and he might be a little wild.
You know, if you can overcome that, you can overcome this. And it's done by sticking together and yes, getting as much information as you possibly can. So challenge leadership, ask the important questions.
And I think if you do that, they'll they'll provide the answers that you need and hopefully to instill upon you the the confidence that is, as long as we stick together, we have a chance of making things right.
But if there's a crack, it's like fear. Animals sense and can smell fear.
If that fear is there and there's a little bit of a crack, then all that has been done to this point can tumble just like that. All of the hard work and effort and sacrifices that were made will have been in vain. And you cannot let that happen.
You just cannot let that happen.
[00:30:00] Speaker A: Thank you to Reggie Smith for an enjoyable and enlightening conversation.
[00:30:05] Speaker B: Thank you for giving me the opportunity, and certainly if you need me to come on again, I'll be happy to.
[00:30:14] Speaker A: This has been the MLBPA's stitch by stitch podcast, connecting players from the past, present, and future.
