Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome to the Players Association Stitch by Stitch podcast where we talk to current and former players about union history, baseball and the bond that players share across generations.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Hit deep to right field. Reynolds is back. This ball is out of here. Home run. Dave Magadan. And the draft may be over. Mets win it 3 to 2.
[00:00:30] Speaker A: This week's guest is Gabe Maginen, a 16 year big leaguer who went on to a successful career as a hitting coach with several organizations. Gabe grew up in Tampa playing Little league ball with the likes of Luis Gonzalez and Tino Martinez, and received encouragement and inspiration from his cousin and godfather, Lou Piniella, before moving on to the University of Alabama and winning the Gold Spikes Award as the nation's best amateur player. He made a name for himself as a professional hitter with the Mets and six other clubs while helping further the advancement of player rights. As an advocate for the union.
[00:01:11] Speaker C: I could remember some of the meetings getting very combative. There must have been a thousand guys in that meeting, minor leaguers, big leaguers, guys on the verge of becoming major leaguers. And they just didn't know what to do because they were being asked to play in the replacement games. And it got very heated. But I think for the most part we got our points across.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: In this conversation, Dave reflects upon his baseball journey, the 199495 strike, his experiences at the Homestead Homies free Agent camp, and a commitment to his fellow players that spanned the entirety of his career.
So, Dave, you come from Tampa, pretty illustrious list of players in that area and it seems like a lot of them came up around the same time as you or played during your career. Gary Sheffield, Tino Martinez, Dwight Gooden, how big an influence was that on you and how fortunate do you feel like that you came up in an area where the baseball competition was so strong?
[00:02:17] Speaker C: Yeah, I felt very fortunate, especially having Lou Piniella, my cousin, godfather and the family that, you know, I had somebody to kind of look to as, hey, maybe this is something I can do for a living. You know, it made it, I guess it made it more of a reality for me, certainly in the Tampa Bay. Tampa Bay area, we've got a lot of players that have made it to the big leagues from this area, even from my Little League. You know, Fred McGriff, Luis Gonzalez and Tino Martinez all played at my Little league.
So it's pretty cool. A little small, small knit group there in West Tampa. And, you know, we made it and we all made it to the big league, so it's pretty cool. But I was fortunate enough to be able to play with Tino, I was able to play with Luis Gonzalez, they were teammates of mine.
So it was great playing with Tampa guys. Gary Sheffield, I played with him in, you know, with the Marlins. So pretty cool to play with Tampa guys and share that bond.
[00:03:13] Speaker A: That little league guys must have been launching bombs in that league.
[00:03:18] Speaker C: Well, I wasn't, but a lot of the other guys were. Tino, I remember seeing Tino, I think I was playing in national seniors, which is like the 15 year old league or maybe big league baseball, which is 16 to 18. And he was in the M. In the major leagues, which is 10 to 12 year old.
And he had, I think he had 27 home runs that year in that, you know, it's probably what a 25 game season.
And I went over there to watch him play one time and I was just standing beyond the left field fence and he had already hit two home runs that game. And then he hit another one to me. I was able to catch his home run in left field. So pretty cool seeing that. And, and you know, a lot of times guys when they're 12 years old doing that kind of damage, they kind of level off a little bit. No, he continued to get better.
[00:04:06] Speaker A: So you did mention Lou Piniella, who is near and dear to me because my first major league beat was as the beat writer for the Cincinnati Reds in the late 80s and early 90s. Lou, one of my all time favorites.
What was your relationship like with him and what kind of impact did he have on you and did you get some of that Lou Piniella intensity as a relative, even in terms of helping you and coaching you?
[00:04:35] Speaker C: Yeah, I certainly had a lot of conversations with Lou growing up on hitting, on what it took to be a professional baseball player. And you know, my dad had a tremendous influence on Lou. He was the one that was along with Lou's father and even his mother took Lou out to take batting practice, showed him how to hit. So he was very close with my dad.
But Lou was always, like I said earlier, he was just that. He was my cousin who we got to see play when he was in the minor leagues. Our summer trips would always be somewhere to see Lou play.
And it just made it a reality, like it was an attainable goal, that, hey, I've got a cousin that's playing professionally. Why not, you know, why can't I do it? And I kind of always had that in the back of my mind.
And Lou was always so gracious. He always gave us gloves. You know, I was five Years old with a professional outfielder's glove. I was playing the infield, but, you know, the glove was almost as big as I was. There's pictures of me in Little League where I'm standing there with a glove and the glove is like, almost as big as my upper body. But he was always so supportive, and, you know, eventually I got to play for Lou in Seattle, and that was a great experience.
So I would say he had a tremendous influence on my career.
[00:05:50] Speaker A: So you are establish yourself, go away to the University of Alabama, won a Gold Spikes Award. So you, I assume at one point said to yourself, I think Robin Ventura's won gold Spikes. JD Drew some of these guys. It's a pretty impressive list.
I guess you knew at some point, hey, I'm on that major league track.
What did that experience do for you?
[00:06:19] Speaker C: Well, winning the Golden Spikes Award was a tremendous honor. Seeing the guys that wanted before me and then obviously the guys that wanted after. It's, you know, it's. It's the biggest award you can get as a baseball player in college or as an amateur player.
But I think I go back to when I played summer ball, the summer in between my. My sophomore and junior year, where I went to the Alaska Summer league. And back then it was a very prestigious league. It's, it's, it's still prestigious, but nothing like it was back then. And we, you know, I was playing against the best players in the country. I played against Mark, Mark McGuire there, Odo B. McDowell.
So, you know, it was at that point that even though I had a lot of success already in the SEC and playing for Alabama, it gave me that confidence. Like I distinctly remember at first base, in between a pitching change, I was kind of looking around and I was like, man, this is something I'd like to do for a living. All I had to worry about was play baseball. I didn't have to worry about going to class or anything like that. So it was an epiphany for me at the time that it was something that for sure I wanted to try and attain and do my best to continue getting better. And so I think Alaska gave me that confidence to continue to improve
[00:07:39] Speaker A: and probably don't really need to spend a whole lot of time on your minor league experience because you were drafted in 83 and you did get a cup of coffee with the 86 Mets. So you were up pretty quick.
When you look back at the 86 Mets, obviously it was a magical team and you weren't there that long.
But just to be around that Cast of characters, how eye opening experience was that? And do you just remember it being a crazy sort of situation? Because that's a team that is legendary for both on and off the field and their personalities too.
[00:08:21] Speaker C: Yeah, I was scared to death when I got called up. We knew how good they were. You know, I'd been in spring training with them and just tried to stay out of everybody's way.
But I tell you what, as crazy as they were, they. They had a genuine love for the game of baseball and for winning. They were, they were very unselfish.
They did whatever it took to win a game. When I got called up, along with the three other guys that got called up when I did, you know, Gary Carter came up to me and said, hey, welcome to the big leagues. You know, Mookie Wilson, Lima Zilli, Keith Hernandez, all those guys were happy to see us for probably a couple reasons, because we were kind of, we were enforcement. We had a huge lead in the division.
So we were going to be able to give them some days off and let them rest up for the postseason. So I look at that as my very, very, very, very small contribution to that team.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: Were you around in the postseason? What was your role in terms of October?
[00:09:27] Speaker C: My role was driving back home to Florida.
We were not allowed to stay there. I mean, obviously we could have stayed there and pay our own way and pay for the tickets and stuff like that, but we were not allowed in the clubhouse.
We were not part of the postseason roster. So I watched all the games from my home in Florida.
[00:09:47] Speaker A: So what was your reaction when the ball rolls through Buckner's legs?
[00:09:51] Speaker C: Oh, it was, I mean, it was incredible.
It's hard to really explain.
I was torn a little bit because I was such a huge Bill Buckner fan my whole life. I mean, I kind of patterned my game after him. I was, you know, I wasn't a big power hitter. Obviously, he wasn't a huge power hitter. He can hit. He hit the ball to all fields. He didn't strike out. He got on baseball. So he was a kind of an idol of mine growing up. So to see him have to go through that and what he had to endure the years after that was, was pretty sad. I was always a huge fan of his, but obviously I was happy for, for our team and the fact that it catapulted us to winning the series.
[00:10:33] Speaker A: Dave, I look back at your career numbers, this is mind boggling.
718 career walks, 546 strikeouts.
Not a lot of home runs, but a 288 career hitter, good on base.
And then I started thinking, you know, Hal Morris was a guy I covered. Mark Grace obviously was prevalent then. It seemed like at that time, if you were first baseman who could hit but maybe didn't have tremendous power, they would just let you be you and contribute that way.
[00:11:07] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I was fortunate. You know, I. I got. I finally got my chance to play every day in 1990.
But they were very patient with me, the Mets organization. Joe McIlvaine was a big part of that. He believed in me.
Had a pretty good rookie year, playing sparingly. I think I only had a little over 200 plate appearances my first year. And I was never hurt or anything other than right at the beginning where I missed the first couple weeks of the season.
So it was. It was hard. It was hard learning how to become a, you know, a good bench player. A guy that's going to play once a week and contribute. And I kind of did that my first, you know, three or four years and to finally get the chance in 1990, I was certainly the exception, not the rule. I was a guy that didn't hit for hardly any power and played power positions at third and at first.
But I felt like I can contribute in other ways, whether it was playing every day or coming off the bench. I think I showed that I could do that.
I could play sparingly and still be a contributor to the offense. So I think that's a big reason why I was able to play as long as I did.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: We'll continue this episode of Stitch by Stitch after this short break.
[00:12:25] Speaker D: The MLBPA launched the Leave It Better campaign to celebrate the union's 60th anniversary and spotlight players efforts to grow the game, mentor future generations and strengthen the baseball community.
Listen to MLBPA executive subcommittee member Jake Cronenweth as he reflects on the mentors that helped shape his career and inspired him to leave the game better than he found it.
[00:12:50] Speaker E: Everybody has a different background and a different story. And any way that we have the ability to improve our communities, where we came from, or communities that we're currently playing in, we're so fortunate to have the opportunity to play this game. And there's things that go on behind the scenes, like collective bargaining that, you know, dictate. Everything that, you know, basically is written down that we operate under every day. Previous groups of players, you know, whether it was in 94, back in the 80s, you know, a lot of those guys sacrificed a lot for us to be in the position that we are the game's never been in a better place and it wouldn't be in a better place if it wasn't for them.
So I think, you know, it's our duty as players to carry that on. There's a few guys that I leaned on. My locker was next to Eric Hosmer. When I first got called up, I got involved with the PA really through my current manager, Craig Stammon, who was the player rep at the time. And he had a lot of kids and he had a lot of other, other obligations to deal with. And so he kind of kicked it off to me and now I'm in the role I am. When you're in that position, the only real thing is just, you know, supporting, informing, and really kind of just bringing the entirety of the group together during bargaining or even during off bargaining years so that we're all on the same page and moving in the right direction. We're all from different places, but it's being confident in who you are, realizing that there's other things that are going on and stuff that's much bigger than you are.
[00:14:21] Speaker D: You can check out all the Leave it Better player features on mlbplayers.com, the MLBPA social channels, LBPA and our YouTube page.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: So at some point you became involved in union leadership. How did that transpire? And were there guys with those Mets teams who may be impressed upon you, the importance of getting involved and the history and obviously being a relative of Lou, I don't know if that had an impact on you, but how did that wind up materializing?
[00:14:58] Speaker C: I think it kind of came through default. I believe I might have been the player rep. I can't remember maybe my last year with the Mets. And then when I went to the Marlins, I was a player up there. And then eventually when I went to the Astros, it was imprinted on us from early on when you get to big league camp, how important that was and what a big part of why we were not only making the money that we were making, but had protections that we had.
And a lot of people made huge sacrifices before us in order for us to enjoy what we were enjoying at that time. Minimum salary was going up every year, guys, contracts are going up every year. The game was growing every year.
So it was very important. It was always talked about how important it was to keep that legacy going. And I felt like I needed to be a part of it. And certainly I was right in the middle of a lot of the fights, you know, the strike in 94 and then leaking into 95 and being a part of that and some of the things that happened during that 95 season in Houston was.
Was very hard to go through, but I feel very proud of the way we handled it.
[00:16:12] Speaker A: We talked to J. Bell, you know, about his experiences and different guys. There were, you know, 1990, some things happened. 85. But obviously 94 was different. There was a strike date set for August 12th.
It came, and I guess you were starting to get involved in leadership then. What do you recall in terms of that unfolding and just the ensuing months with the breakdown in talks and the cancellation of the World Series?
[00:16:43] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, it was difficult.
A little more difficult for me because on August 11, I got hit by a pitch on my left foot and broke my foot.
So it was a getaway day. So I got on the plane I could bear. By the time we got off the plane in Miami, I could barely walk.
So knowing that the next day was going to be our strike day, and it made it a little more difficult having to go to the doctor and get X rays and all that stuff. But it was. It was obviously very intense.
You know, it was.
We never thought that the season would get canceled. We thought that the talks would get accelerated with us going on strike. But it just kind of kept lingering on and on and it became very combative and it actually continued. Even though we came to CBA and we played the shorter season in 95, there were still a lot of issues with replacement players getting called up during that season.
Just the replacement players in general that were playing in spring training, some of them minor leaguers, some of them ex big leaguers that came back to play in that spring training, which was very.
I think we all, all of us looked at the ex big leaguers as a little more of a.
Of a shot at us, because they were guys that had enjoyed the fruits of the labor of the years past, and now they were coming in to kind of disrupt all that. It was, it was very disappointing.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: A lot of guys talked about, remembered going to Washington to lobby Congress. What do you remember about just the day to day of those 232 day strike and what you wound up doing beyond, you know, hitting in a cage in terms of your role and you're representing your players.
[00:18:41] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, it was daily phone calls. We had meetings around the country. I can remember meetings in Tampa. I went to Las Vegas for meetings. I was never a part of the, the.
The board that went to Washington or was in the room with the owners, owners group, you know, negotiating and stuff like that, But I was a rep that was going to the meetings at different parts of the country, and I could remember some of the meetings getting very combative, where, you know, I can remember specifically guys going up and talking here in Tampa. There must have been a thousand guys in that meeting, you know, minor leaguers, big leaguers, guys in the verge of becoming major leaguers. And they just didn't know what to do because they were being asked to play in the replacement games. And, and it was very, it got very heated.
But, you know, I think for the most part, we got our points across and I think the, the. The joke of the replacement players in spring training, how, how ugly the games looked and all that had a big part in, you know, creating an atmosphere where they were going to come back to the table and negotiate.
[00:20:00] Speaker A: So I went back and looked about at a quote that you gave to Jason Stark in 1995, and you said it used to be you had to put in a good career in the minors to get to the big leagues.
Now all you've got to do is quit your day job.
[00:20:20] Speaker C: I remember saying that. Yeah. I mean, it was, it. It pissed us off, man. It, you know, we knew how hard it was to get to the big leagues and, and I didn't really.
At least I could only speak for myself and the guys that were around me. But, you know, we could almost understand the, the electricians and the plumbers and the ex high school and college players that were coming in to make a buck and, you know, they were getting bonuses to come play and all that.
We, it was a much bigger deal for the ex major leaguers that had careers, six, seven, eight, nine year careers that were coming back and being a part of that, those replacement games. And that was, that was a punch in the gut for sure.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: It sounds like it was a little bit of a galvanizing force. I mean, if it might have had the opposite effect on the players in terms of unifying them to see what the owners are trying to do at the time.
[00:21:22] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure, because it certainly put everybody on the same page. I mean, you see guys out there that were clownish in a lot of ways, wearing major league uniforms and making major league stipend pay and spring training. And if there was anybody on the fringes at that point, they weren't on the fringes anymore. They came back into the fold and it made us even stronger.
[00:21:46] Speaker A: Did it also drum home the point that you can't say somebody's a major leaguer just by putting a major league uniform on Them because the regular major leaguers are on strike.
[00:21:58] Speaker C: Absolutely. And I think they knew it. I mean, obviously there was a. There was a little bit of pride involved with some of those guys that, that crossed the line, but it was pretty ugly. And it continued on through the next year. When I saw, you know, well, the Homestead spring training, which was humbling to say the least.
I mean, you felt like all of us free agents for the people that don't know, we had a free agent camp that next spring for guys that were free agents and hadn't signed with anybody and.
And, you know, it started off with maybe over a hundred of us there, and then there were 60, then there was 40, then. And then, you know, you find yourself like the puppy at the puppy store that doesn't get picked. Right. You're the Latin. The run of the litter doesn't get picked by anybody.
So I think I ended up signing with Houston when there was maybe 30 players left in camp. So it was tough, but, you know, at least I signed
[00:22:57] Speaker A: just to enlighten people.
Following the strike, a massive surplus of major leaguers remained unsigned.
Training camp open.
Cost conscious franchises relied heavily on prospects and replacement players. Dozens of veterans had nowhere to train.
So the union actually funded a, I guess they called it sort of a misfit camp or orphan free agent camp at the Homestead sports complex, where I believe there had been a tropical storm or a hurricane down there, correct?
[00:23:32] Speaker C: Yes, Hurricane Andrew.
[00:23:34] Speaker A: We talked to Todd Stottlemeier about this.
Tim Belcher, another one, who was my all time favorites, was there. Tim Belcher had said he later recalled the unique atmosphere, including the isolation of being, quote, on an island, while local military pilots from the nearby air base buzzed low over the field to cheer the players on.
[00:23:57] Speaker C: Yeah, I remember that for sure.
I mean, Homestead, they built that. I think it was for the Indians originally.
And I don't think they ever played there because I think they built it. And then Hurricane Andrew hit, destroyed it or, you know, pretty much destroyed it. And everything around Homestead was. I mean, it looked like a nuclear bomb hit that area. Like when you're driving down 95, there was not anything higher than 8ft in the homes in the distance. Every roof was off every house, every tree was down to the ground and it was depressing. And then they rebuilt the Homestead complex and we were able to use it, but I don't think a major league team ever used it other than us when we went down there for the misfit camp. So we played a lot of golf. We would drive up to, like, Doral or some of the courses up in Miami. And we would go up there and play almost every day after the workout. But then when you started getting passed over and not signing with anybody, then it started becoming a little more serious, and you're like, hey, I've got to put my priorities in order here and start trying to sign with a team.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: Was there sort of a gallows humor among the guys there? Did you feel, like a bond of these guys, or was it just that this was such a miserable, surreal experience that everybody was just more intent on, how do I get out of
[00:25:27] Speaker F: here?
[00:25:29] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it probably started as gallows humor. And, oh, look at us, you know, we're over here. We're the, you know, the one ones nobody wants. And, you know, know. And it was kind of funny at first, and we, like I said, we were, you know, playing golf and having a good time, and.
And then it got serious, because then when it went down from 110 people to. To 60, then 50, then 40, you know, and then it's like, oh, you know, guys are leaving every day. You know, it's like, your buddy that you were hitting with in bp, now he's gone. And, you know, I think I drove down there with Jody Reed, and I think I. I signed first, and he didn't sign. So when I signed and left, because Jody and I were good friends or are good friends, we used to play golf all the time. So when I signed and left to go home, to pack my stuff, to go with Houston to Kissimmee, he left, too. He was like, I'm leaving. You know, I'm gone. I'm not staying here. But then his agent was like, hey, get your. Get your butt back to Homestead. Nobody will sign you if you're home, so you got to get back there. So he had to turn around and go back.
So it was really a strange time.
[00:26:33] Speaker A: And the union really had to put a lot of time and effort and coordination into planning this thing and arranging it. Right.
It was an undertaking.
[00:26:46] Speaker C: Oh, for sure. I mean, just the logistics of it, you know, where everybody's going to stay. Because there are a lot of places that had been damaged by Hurricane Andrew.
So we had to get places to stay, had to get staff, because there was a lot of guys.
I want to say there was over 100 guys. So you had to get staff not only to throw bp, to watch the pitchers throw, you needed bullpen catchers to catch all those pitchers that needed a sign. So it was a tremendous undertaking, but it went off without a hitch and we even got a daily stipend. So it was almost like it was a real spring training with no team
[00:27:26] Speaker A: and the great Jackie Moore was there overseeing it, correct?
[00:27:30] Speaker C: Jackie Moore was. I, you know, I can't remember a lot of the staff. I know Greg Olson, the former catcher of the Braves, he was there.
So yeah, I mean, it was quality instruction and they were great and we had great DP flowers and all that. But it was, it was, it's just very, very strange.
[00:27:45] Speaker A: And we weren't talking, we were talking guys. I think Dave Stewart was there and like I said, Stottlemeyer, there was a list of accomplished guys. So.
[00:27:54] Speaker C: Oh yeah, for sure.
[00:27:56] Speaker A: When Judge Sotomayor made her ruling and everything, the log jam broke and everything ended.
What was that like? Was it just a scramble to figure out what am I going to do? Or how chaotic was it and how much confusion was there at that point to figure out I have to resume my life as a ballplayer, but who am I going to do that with? No roadmap.
[00:28:20] Speaker C: Yeah, it was, I mean, chaos is the right word.
It was like a mad scramble.
Obviously, you know, doing the, the free agent camp was something new and different and crazy times down there. It reminded me a lot of COVID Like, you know, where Covid. It was like, you know, there was rumors that, you know, we were going to come back and then, no, we can, we got to get a testing procedure, but the vaccinations and all that. And then all of a sudden we got the goal, like, hey, we're going to have spring training 2.0 in Denver.
So within like a day or so, I was packed and driving to Denver for spring training. So it was very similar to that.
[00:29:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
And just in terms of the logistics of the camp, did you stay in barracks? I guess. And did you.
I don't know. Were you guys, did you eat well and sleep well and did. Or were you like ordering out for pizza and reliving your Alabama college days?
[00:29:25] Speaker C: Yeah, no, I, I'm trying to remember. I think we stayed in a hotel like a, like a more mid range hotel.
The food was great that we had at the fields typical kind of spring training fair with the salads and the sandwiches and stuff like that. But you know, a lot of us had already made a good bit of money in baseball, so it wasn't like we were, you know, shaking 10 cups on the corner for, for food. But we had a good time. Like I said at the beginning, it was doing the workouts in the morning Go through it. We didn't play games, so just kind of going through the workouts, BP taking grounders, running, stuff like that, facing live pitching at some point. And then, you know, we were done a lot of times, 12:30, one o' clock in the afternoon. So we were, we were going to play golf almost every day and you know, enjoying dinner at the end of the day. But you know, like I mentioned earlier, it was all fun and games at the beginning, but it was like, oh, you know, I need to find a team and I need to, you know, I'm calling my agent every day, you know, hey, have you heard anything? Have you heard anything? So it was surreal. There were teams sending scouts to the camp to watch us take BP and watch the pitchers throw and all that. So it was almost like a, like a try, mini tryout.
[00:30:46] Speaker A: It's funny because when I go back through the story that Jason wrote when he came to see you in Tampa, there was another golden quote you had where at the time, I guess Tim McCarver, who was broadcast for the Mats, said that players were so unhappy that some of them were thinking about crossing the picket line. And you said, I know Tim's smart, but I didn't know he could read minds.
[00:31:14] Speaker C: Yeah, I remember that one too.
[00:31:17] Speaker A: Yeah, you just, it tested guys resolve, but it seemed like with you it almost strengthened your resolve. The whole experience
[00:31:29] Speaker C: for sure, because you know, being involved in all the issues and discussing the issues and the, the back and forth with the ownership group and all that, I was kind of privy to a lot of stuff that the public didn't know that we really couldn't blurt out there in the public.
So it did strengthen my resolve and it was something that I continued to try to pay forward throughout my career, educate guys on the strength of the union and what it meant to go through a lot of the fights that I went through as a player and as a union rep and the prices I paid for, for being probably one of the more vocal guys back then.
I still to this day I have hate mail that I got in Houston for some of the stuff I said during the 95 season when we called up a couple of the replacement players that cost us a division title because they called up a couple, they called up two guys.
We were leading the wild card by I think, four or five games and we were just a game out in the division.
And when they called those two guys up, it created such a nasty atmosphere in our clubhouse that we went right in the, in the toilet. We ended up not making the playoffs and went to the last game of the year, but we didn't make the playoffs. And what made it worse is that one of the guys that got called up was called up for Daryl Kyle, a guy that was a fan favorite. He was great in the clubhouse. He was struggling that year, but he is still a guy that we had confidence in. They sent him down to AAA and brought up a replacement guy. So it was. It was crazy.
[00:33:11] Speaker A: You actually still have mail.
How, how nasty was it?
[00:33:17] Speaker C: What, the mail?
[00:33:18] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:19] Speaker C: Oh, it was life threatening.
You know, I mean, it was probably 60 letters I got that year.
You know, Texas playing in Texas, A right to work state.
Don't really recognize unions too well. I don't know how it is now, but I know back then unionizing was not great in Texas and it was a lot of, you know, life threatening stuff and, and not too many of that, but it was mostly hate mail, like, who do you think you are, you know, talking like that? A guy has a right to work, blah, blah, blah.
But it was, it was pretty ugly. And I was getting booed at home.
I mean, I was literally.
I was a starting third baseman on the Astros, on a team trying to make the playoffs. And the three or four homestands we had after those guys got called up, every time I went up the bat, I got booed.
[00:34:17] Speaker A: Did you feel any other consequences from being out front? Like way back in the day, guys who were player reps or spoke out or whatever? Dick Bosman and others told us they didn't even get signed. I mean, that was in the early 70s.
Do you think that sometimes management would even say, if it was a question, hey, this guy's a unit leader.
[00:34:42] Speaker F: And,
[00:34:43] Speaker A: you know, was there any of that?
[00:34:48] Speaker C: I think the guys in the, in the 70s probably paid the price more than we did.
I certainly didn't go back to Houston because of how vocal I was. For sure. That was a reason they didn't bring me back, because I had a great year. I mean, I hit like 3. 313. I ended up playing third base every. I started off in a platoon, but then towards the end I was playing every day, you know, hit fifth in the lineup, fifth or sixth in the lineup. We had a great offense.
You know, maybe not keep me as a third baseman. Certainly did well enough to stay on the team. I led the team and I was second on the team in hitting. Derek Bell led the team in hitting that year.
But it certainly played a role in me not going back to Houston for sure.
What a drive. The right but right at crook, hesitates and all in the. Loses a chance for the catch, comes up with it on the short hop, and Hearn goes down to second. So Magadan with a
[00:35:45] Speaker A: base hit, his first major league at bat, and he hit it on the nose. Dave Palone will take the ball and throw it to the Mets dugout.
So a couple of souvenirs for the Mets today.
Obviously, people today are talking about a salary cap or. That's the, that's the issue du jour.
That was the issue in 1994, correct?
[00:36:10] Speaker C: Absolutely. And it seems to always be the issue.
Yeah, I mean, you know, they try to say that it's for competitive balance, right? But we're seeing three of the four teams that are right now in the playoffs are the lowest payroll teams. Small market teams, they do it right, they play the game the right way.
The other sports that have caps have had dynasties. You know, just like in, in baseball, there's been teams that have won, you know, the, the Dodgers. Are you going to consider them a dynasty? Because they won two in a row.
There's actually been more teams, more different franchises over the last 30 years to win championships in baseball than in any of the other sports.
So to me, that, that's pretty good competitive balance.
[00:36:57] Speaker A: Just in general principle, I guess.
We talked to Kent, to Colby and others about being able to earn what the market gives you.
Where are you at in terms of that salary cap debate? It sounds like you've always been in a place, but in a vacuum of just the whole concept of a cab.
What is it about it that has prompted you to be pretty steadfast in your beliefs?
[00:37:26] Speaker C: Well, it's funny because the owners seem to be all about capitalism until it comes to how to pay your labor. Right. Then they want restrictions and limits and stuff like that. So I think if we want to live in a true free market society, then players should be able to make whatever they make. And I think the, the revenue sharing, the, that that goes on at baseball probably needs to be addressed better, but to me, it's the teams that kind of sit back and really don't do a whole lot to try and win and still reap the benefits of the, of the, of the national contracts for baseball and just stick that, that money in their pockets.
To me, that that's what needs to be addressed because those teams aren't even trying to compete. Right. And you know, it's all about how you run your team and how you spend your money. You know, it's, it's obvious there's Teams that spend a lot of money on, on payroll and they, they didn't even make the playoffs.
[00:38:28] Speaker A: Do you feel like you're hearing some of the same arguments now from ownership that you heard in the mid-90s?
[00:38:35] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure.
You know, it's like a broken record, you know, and it's, it, it's something they've tried to get for, you know, the last 40 years. You know, they want to have a salary cap, but I think the free market is always what works best. And the salary cap in the other sports has not done what they thought it was going to do. And it's. Why would it work any differently in baseball?
[00:39:03] Speaker A: You're an astute observer. I mean, and you're a sports fan who looks at the other sports. When you see the salary cap and the way its consequences in the other sports, what are the things that stand out to you?
[00:39:18] Speaker C: Well, I still think that the teams that are run the best and have the best ownership group, front office group, head coach, and it's a consistent communication down the line are the teams that are going to win in the end. I think the Dodgers show that. Yeah, the Dodgers spend a lot of money, right. But they are run as well as any organization in baseball, and they have a great minor league system. They have great minor league instruction.
You know, they have great coaches on their big league staff. They don't look at their coaches on the big league staff as a necessary evil like a lot of teams do. They feel like they can put anybody in that role because, you know, they're major league players.
So it's just like with any other sport. You know, the teams that don't win are the teams that don't have that cohesive message all the way through the organization.
Everybody's on the same page. The hitting coach, I use the Dodgers a lot, but the hitting coach, a major league hitting coach and his assistant are all on the same page all the way through the organization, all the way down to scouting. So they're scouting players that fit into the mold, that they want to eventually be their major league players. And when you can do that and keep people on message, you have teams like the Dodgers have had over the years.
[00:40:46] Speaker A: Now, you continued to play, you know, you went to Houston, but you wound up. You moved from Chicago to Oakland to San Diego. You had a stint, obviously, in Florida.
Did you continue to stay involved? And were there any other memories of your time or issues that evolved that stand out to you in the final phase of your PA engagement during your career?
[00:41:15] Speaker C: Yeah, I think the Last time I was a player rep was at Houston in 1995.
Um, I remained engaged in that.
I. I tried to continue educating the players how important it was to stay together.
But eventually, as I got older and I got into my mid to late 30s and I was winding. Winding down my career then I. I felt it was even more important for those guys that had never experienced a work stoppage to understand how devastating that can be and how important it was to stay together as a union.
[00:41:52] Speaker A: So you finished in 2001, I believe there's an interesting trivia question linked between you and a certain guy named Nolan
[00:42:02] Speaker F: Ryan.
[00:42:05] Speaker C: Yes.
So, Nolan, I'd faced a good bit in my career when I was with the Mets, and I got traded to Seattle from the Marlins, playing for Lou there in Seattle, and Nolan was starting against us, and I think I was hitting six that day.
And you could tell, having faced him before, that he looked like he was. We didn't have miles per hour on the scoreboard like they do now, but it looked like he was probably going 80 miles an hour. I mean, 85 miles. Barely. Ball had a hump in it.
So I think he walked a couple guys. The guy got a hit, and the guy in front of me hit a grand slam.
Dan Howitt.
And Dan came back and he kind of whispered to me, like, he's got nothing. I'm like, yeah, I could see that, because I'm used to him being Nolan Ryan, you know. So I went up the bat and I, you know, he threw ball one, ball two, strike one. All fast. Well, straight balls. And then ball three. When he threw ball three, he walked off the mound, and that was the last pitch he threw in the big leagues.
So another guy came in and threw him ball four. So I got. Nolan gets a walk. So I was the last guy to face Nolan Ryan.
[00:43:21] Speaker A: Obviously. That's probably kind of bittersweet, right, to be part of history, but yet sad, because I'm sure you must have had massive quantities of respect for Nolan Ryan. No
[00:43:32] Speaker C: doubt.
Yeah, no doubt. I mean, having a, you know, seeing him early in my career, not when he was at the top of his game, but he was still a legitimate one or two starter in the big leagues and throwing, you know, upper 90s. And to me, it was his breaking ball. Like, his breaking ball was unhittable. Like, it was a true 12, six, you know, hard, tight spin. And I mean, it looked like it was over your head, and it dropped in for. For a strike. So the times he punched me out were the times he threw Me breaking balls. I felt like I was always a good fastball hitter. So I can, I can put my bat on. On his. On his fastball, but, man, that breaking ball was something else. And then he started throwing the split, which is even more devastating. So.
[00:44:19] Speaker A: Yeah, did that ever come up. Have you seen him since then, through the years or.
[00:44:24] Speaker C: Yes, for sure. I ended up going to Texas as a hitting coach, and he was the president there. So when I did the interview, and then I kind of ended the interview going into his office and just shooting the breeze with him for about a half hour, and that's the first thing he brought up. Man, I'm so tired of you being brought up as the last guy that faced me. And I'm like, hey, so am I still hired?
But yeah, so it was, it was pretty cool. He was, he was. I mean, he's. He's a man's man, right? He. He was as good as there was for a lot of years. And I, it was a, it was an honor to be able to face him and say that I faced him. So
[00:45:04] Speaker A: just being in his presence is like a privilege, right? You know?
[00:45:09] Speaker C: Yeah, like, you know, you, you, you know, you face him.
You know, I think I maybe had 15 at bats against them.
And, you know, when you're facing him, you're like, man, is he like 6, 8, 6, 9, you know, as hard as he's doing, he's on the mount. He's got that presence like, you know, don't you dare take a swing on me. You know, and then when you meet him, you see that he's, you know, he's 6, 1, 6 2, something like that. He's not like this guy that you've kind of pictured in your mind your whole, your whole life. So certainly one of the greats for sure.
[00:45:43] Speaker A: So you graduate, you know, from playing, and you spent a lot of years as a hitting coach.
How gratifying was that? Did you find, Geez, I'm.
I really fit. Like, this is something that I was meant to do. How sort of an enjoyable a postscript to your career, was it to go to places and work with hitters in different spots and help young hitters? And what did you get out of that experience?
[00:46:12] Speaker C: I was asked, Yeah, I did an interview yesterday for local paper, and he asked me the question, are you more proud of your 15, 16 years playing or you're 20 years coaching? And it was hard for me to answer it because I'm pretty proud of both because there's not a lot of guys that are Able to stay in the big leagues as a hitting coach for 20 years now. I had to move around a little bit to get those 20 years as a hitting coach, but I'm certainly very proud of that. I absolutely adored the job.
Never wanted to do anything else. Never wanted to pursue managing or bench coach or anything like that. I love being a hitting coach.
Certainly the job evolved over the years.
You know, when I was first a hitting coach, I was the only guy right now you got, you know, my last year in Colorado, I had two assistants.
So, you know, there was three of us with input on the hitters. And so it changed from me being a solo act to me having to, you know, kind of corral two other coaches and making sure that they're kind of teaching and doing what I want them to do along with all the minor league coaches. So.
But I thoroughly enjoyed it. It's not an easy job.
I really respect the guys that stick around and do it for a long period of time because it's not easy.
[00:47:34] Speaker A: Dave, One of the hot button things are certainly between the former players and current people who run the game and the current players probably caught the middle a little bit is the focus on analytics and data and different swing patterns and what's your 30,000 foot look at that evolution in terms of where the game has gone, the challenge for hitters, the challenge for coaches, and where baseball is as a game right now and incorporating that without losing the soul of the game and things that made a guy like you really good, which is eel and instinctiveness and the different things that you brought to the plate.
[00:48:23] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, do we have like four or five hours to go over this part of the interview?
I think analytics have a place. I used it more. I wanted to trust my eyes. Right. I wanted to be able to see a guy get a feel for number one, what he did well at the plate, what made him a good hitter, what was he getting away from that was causing him to not hit the ball as hard as he was consistently previous.
And I use the analytics to kind of confirm what I was seeing with my eyes or if I was dumbfounded. And I man, what, what is going on? Why is he not getting to this pitch? Whatever. Then I can go to the analytics and, and use that to kind of help me along my path to, you know, helping the guy get better.
But I think hitting is reactive. Right. You're reacting to the pitch, whether it's a breaking bar, fastball or whatever. The movement on the fastball, sink, cut, ride, what, whatever it Is so the, the numbers that give you percentages of how much a guy is throwing a pitch or hey, he likes to do this and this count or first pitch, he likes to do this.
The pitchers got complete control of that and they have the same numbers we do. So if they start falling into patterns, they can change those patterns. Me as a hitter, I have to react to the, to what the pitcher is doing to me.
So in that way, I think analytics by far help the pitchers more than the hitters, in my opinion. It's not like it doesn't help the hitters at all, but for sure it helps the pitchers. The video, the slow mo, the super slow motion video and you know, the 8 billion frames per second on a hitter is great because it can slow everything down for you as a hitting coach and you can kind of pick, maybe pick something up.
But for me, in the end, hitting is feel.
And when you're paralyzed at the plate thinking about a million different things about your swing, about what the pitcher's trying to do to you and all that to me, it takes the reaction away from being a hitter.
And in that way you have to tread lightly with how you use the analytics because I think in the end it's all about.
It's kind of like golf. I always use the analogy with golf. In golf, you're only as good as your bad swing, right?
If you're slicing a ball 80 yards to the right, you're probably not going to score very well if that's your miss. But if your miss is a 15 yard slice, you're probably going to. You got a good chance to score that day.
Baseball's the same way. Tony Gwynne is a perfect example. His 3,000th hit was a change up to right center field in Montreal. He was completely fooled on a change up, but his swing path was such that he could just ride it out and was still able to barrel the ball up, get it in the air and get a base hit the right center field first 3,000 hit.
And to me that's what hitting is.
How good are my misses? How good?
Like when I take a swing and I'm a little out in front or I'm a little bit beat, am I still hitting a rocket to left field or I'm still keeping a ball fair to the pole side and those are the guys that hit 300.
If you're, if you have to be perfect in where you're making contact and that's your 450 foot home run, but it only happens once a week, you're probably going to be pretty inconsistent as a hitter
[00:52:20] Speaker A: and just shifting back a little bit more to the big picture with the economics and the labor and what's going on.
You obviously, during your time, became aware of the importance of remembering the history, passing it on to future players.
If you're in a room with young kids now, you're still in our clubhouse and they say, you know, what do you think is important for me to pay attention to?
What advice would you give
[00:52:53] Speaker F: them?
[00:52:55] Speaker C: Listen to the guys that have experience, whether it's coaches that have been through the labor strikes, other players that kind of went through it, you know, in, in during the.
When was the last CBA? 2021 that year.
Listen to the guys that went through that experience is huge. Right.
Understanding how important it is to stay together. And I know the union's doing that, you know, tooting that horn over and over again, how important it is to stay together and stay on message. And if you're going to do interviews, you know, say the right things, say, you know, say the things that are true, but say the right things, say the things that are going to make us stronger as a union. And we've achieved a lot of stuff over the years and a lot of people have done.
Have made tremendous sacrifices for the union.
And this is no time to start thinking. Maybe it's time to start, you know, giving in a little bit and all that. I think it's. The game's in a really good place right now.
We're growing the game and it's international now. So it's even more important now to stay on message and stay together.
[00:54:13] Speaker A: Steve Rogers, when we spoke to him, I believe he said his time with the union, as a rep and being involved in these phrase. He said, it becomes ingrained in your soul, basically, that just, there's an awful lot of.
You're in some pretty history making, you know, meetings and votes.
Is this something that you'll always carry your experience as a player who fought for players and got booed for it, got hate mail for it.
Is it something years later that you say, hey, maybe it was uncomfortable at times, but I stood for something and I'm proud of that.
[00:54:58] Speaker C: Absolutely. I didn't regret, even through all the stuff that I went through in Houston, I never regretted anything that I did for the union.
I'm very proud of the stuff that I went through and grinded through and was still able to have a very long career, not only as a player but as a coach.
I think there could be a tendency because there's been so many years of harmony between the owners and the players to forget what happened in 94 and 90 and in the years past.
Certainly Steve Rogers is, you know, he's the quintessential person to speak on that because he went through all of that and both as a player and as a, as a, you know, part of the union. So we can't forget. That's why it's great that you're doing these podcasts or these shows that shines a light on what, what players went through to get to the point where we're at now. And it's no time to lose solidarity now.
[00:56:04] Speaker A: A lot of guys we talk to, it's just when you, when they think back to what baseball has brought to their life and the richness of experience is good and bad, it never leaves you, right?
[00:56:16] Speaker C: It never leaves you because I'm still reaping the benefits of the union, right?
I've got a very generous pension. I'm still able to keep my major league medical insurance.
It's something that never leaves you because it's going to stay with me for the rest of my life and the rest of my wife's life. You know, she's going to enjoy those, those perks. So it doesn't leave you because of what it meant to me and, and the, the struggle of, of going through all that, it was certainly worth it.
And it, it doesn't leave you because you know, how important that struggle was and how important it is for the guys today to carry on that legacy and continue on with how important the union is for. Because they're not going to play forever, right? They're going to be in my position as an ex player, retired player, and I was fortunate to keep coaching.
But a lot of guys don't get to do that. So the benefits go far beyond you as a player. It's going to continue on until you're dead and gone.
[00:57:26] Speaker A: Thanks to Dave Magadan, for sure, sharing his memories and his story.
This has been an episode of Stitch by Stitch, connecting players from the past, present and future.
[00:57:38] Speaker D: This episode was written and produced by Jerry Krasnick with research and production support from Pablo Okaris, Pablo Bauza and Talia Sklar. This episode was edited and mixed by Mark Levine with additional video editing from David Haiti. Our supervising producer was Rachel Gross. Emily Kless provided art direction and social media strategy, and our executive producers were Roz Guevara and Gretchen Mueller. The director of communications and external affairs is Sylvia Alvarez, and our chief communications officer is Ori Coren. The Stitch by Stitch podcast is an MLBPA Audio original. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe. Wherever you get get your podcast.
