Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Welcome to the Players Association Stitch by Stitch podcast, where we talk to current and former players about union history, baseball, and the bond that players share across generations.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: Here comes Bradley running third. The throw by Barfield, and it's going to be in time. The collision. Bradley Bulls. Martinez over. Thomas will wind up on the third base. Browning third. The throw gets by Orch. Throw to the plate, and it is time to get Gorman.
Holy smoke.
[00:00:35] Speaker A: Buck Martinez bowled over our guest this episode is John Albert. Buck Martinez, a baseball fixture for nearly 60 years as a player, manager, author, and broadcaster, Buck is a beloved and revered figure in Toronto, which is why the Blue Jays plan to wrap their arms around him and honor him with induction into the franchise's new hall of Excellence later this month. Buck spent 17 seasons as a backup catcher in the big leagues with the Blue Jays, Royals and Brewers. But his impact went well beyond statistics. He was a leader, a respected teammate, and a trusted ally of Marvin Miller and Donald Fear. There's some bruising labor confrontations in the 1970s and 80s.
[00:01:25] Speaker C: I was just so wrapped up in trying to survive in the major leagues, and it didn't really sink in for my first four or five years until I got to a point where I was kind of an established player. That's when I took more of an interest. But I certainly remember Marvin Miller coming to the meetings and talking about the importance of staying together and being unified because baseball players are truly the backbone of the entire industry.
[00:01:49] Speaker A: While Buck has transitioned to retirement, he's always available to share words of wisdom and counseling for the current generation. For all that he's accomplished in the game, he will always be a player at heart.
[00:02:03] Speaker D: Buck Martinez, welcome to Stitch by Stitch. It's great to finally sit down with you.
[00:02:08] Speaker C: Yeah. Jerry, good to see you as well. I know that you have a project that you love very much, and obviously I feel the same way.
[00:02:17] Speaker D: So we unfortunately had to come to beautiful Clearwater, Florida, and apparently you have a nice view in the morning, as you told us.
[00:02:25] Speaker C: Yeah, you know what? It's great. We actually lived in this building for 18 years before we moved up north, a little bit farther north of Clearwater. But it's good to be back down here. It's a great view. Probably the best beach in Florida, Clearwater, Sand Key area. It's great.
[00:02:43] Speaker D: So this is a long place from where your story starts in the Sacramento area. I believe it was Redding, California is your birthplace.
[00:02:52] Speaker C: Yeah, I was born in Redding and we moved to Sacramento when I was about 10. My dad had family in Sacramento. We moved down there, I got a chance to play baseball down there a little bit more. And there were four boys. So we all knew that being in Sacramento would be a better opportunity for us for school, for sports, and for everything. And we were around a lot more family in Sacramento.
[00:03:16] Speaker D: You can fill a whole Wikipedia page with the baseball players who come from Sacramento. I mean, Dusty Baker, Larry Boa, Jerry Manuel, Jerry Royster, I looked it up. But Greg Vaughn, Steve Sachs, the Forsh brothers, I believe I'm probably missing some people.
What was it like coming from an area that was such a bountiful baseball area like Sacramento?
[00:03:40] Speaker C: We actually played baseball all the time. We had a winter league. We played at a park down near Sacramento City College called Land Park.
And on the weekends, there were at least seven or eight fields that were full of baseball games all day long. Baseball was huge in Sacramento at the time. We had the Sacramento Solons, the Pacific Coast League team, and they would play there at Solon Field. So that was a big thing for us. But, yeah, we played all the time. I played on winter league teams. I played in the spring, played after Babe Ruth, and once I got to high school, we played American Legion ball.
But all those guys you mentioned, Ron Bryant, Rich Childs, Dusty Baker, we all played against one another. And in fact, Bob Oliver, who was my teammate in Kansas City in 1969, he grew up there, too. So we had so many major league players and so many professional players that came back after the season and played winter ball, we'd have 500 fans watching a game on a Sunday afternoon.
[00:04:41] Speaker D: So I have to ask you, everybody in baseball knows you as Buck Martinez.
You're John Albert Martinez.
Can you tell people the story of how you became Buck? And I thought I read that you were, like, in elementary school when you realized your name was John.
[00:04:58] Speaker C: Yeah, it comes from my mom's side of the family.
She was a native California Indian, and we had a lot of Bucks in our family. I had an Uncle Buck, I had a cousin Buck, and I was Buck. And my dad just. He was an outdoorsman. He loved to hunt. And that just kind of stuck with me. So I was Buck up until kindergarten. I went to school, and they called out John Martinez, and I went, wow, there's another Martinez in this group. But that's when I really realized that my name was actually John and not Buck.
[00:05:29] Speaker D: You originally signed with the Phillies as an amateur free agent, and then you were taken by Houston in the 68 Rule 5 draft. Then they traded you to Kansas City.
You were with three teams before your MLB debut at age 20, what did that teach you about the game? Did you receive a bit of an early education? That stability might not be my thing.
[00:05:54] Speaker C: Yeah, well, you know what? I was so green, and I didn't know much at all about professional baseball. My father and I didn't know anything about it. I signed with the Phillies because I had played for the Phillies scout team in the area. Eddie Bachman was the great scout, and he was the guy that would come up from Danville, California. John Vukovich, Larry Boa, Mike Strahler, all of these guys, Lowell Palmer, we all played for the Phillies scout team. I signed with the Phillies, got drafted by Houston. And it's interesting because Pat Gillick, who became my general manager in Toronto, was an assistant general manager in Houston at that time. I got drafted and traded the same day. So the Phillies protested that they didn't have a chance to give me back. So there was a lot of confusion at that time, but it ended up being a pretty good place for me to play.
[00:06:44] Speaker D: You're in Kansas city at age 20, I believe Lou Piniello was on that team.
We always ask players, did you have any early mentors, guys who sort of took you by the hand and taught you the ropes? I think that was kind of a young team. But what do you remember about that Royals clubhouse and if there were any guys who had a special impact on you?
[00:07:07] Speaker C: Well, it was funny because I was in school until June because that was during the Vietnam War, and we all had college deferments because I was in college. I signed after my freshman year at Sacramento City College. So I worked out with the team in April when they came down to Oakland to play the A's. And I went down and I took batting practice with them. And I'll never forget, I have the major league uniform on, and I'm having a great day, and some of the guys are really friendly to me. Other guys kind of didn't want anything to do with me because I was a rookie and I couldn't help them. But after batting practice, Joe Foy puts his arm around me and says, hey, Rook, how'd it go? He said, oh, I had a great time. He said, he. He said, how do you like the uniform?
I said, boy, it's beautiful. Isn't it great? Major league uniform. How do you like the socks? I said, the socks are kind of low, aren't they? And he turned around to the whole clubhouse and screamed, hey, the rookie doesn't like his socks. So it made me feel about an inch high.
But Dave Wickersham, who was one of the pitchers on that team, came up to me and he said, don't worry, kid, nobody likes the socks. So they pulled a prank on me right out of the chute when I was 20 years old.
[00:08:22] Speaker D: This was a pivotal time in the history of the union. Obviously.
Just started in 1966 with Marvin Miller. The first CBA was in 68.
So how did you first learn about the union and the importance of it? Do you remember your first meeting where Marvin came to spring training? The impression he made on you being in the middle of this? What do you recall from that time?
[00:08:48] Speaker C: Yeah, Jerry, I was so green. Like I said, I came up from a ball to the major leagues and I was 20 years old. We had a veteran pitcher, Mo Drabowski, and Drabble came from the Orioles, and the Orioles at that time were the benchmark. They were the gold standard in baseball with so many great players and such a great team. But Drabo was the guy that everybody kind of looked up to for leadership. And I believe he was the player rep at that time.
But like I said, I was just so wrapped up in trying to survive in the major leagues that it didn't really sink in for my first four or five years until I got to a point where I was kind of an established player. And then in 73, 74, 75, when things started to get really interesting, that's when I took more of an interest. But I certainly remember Marvin Miller coming to the meetings and talking about the importance of staying together and being unified because baseball players are truly the backbone of the entire industry.
[00:09:45] Speaker D: You mentioned also being in the military.
Vietnam was going on. What branch did you serve in and what did you do?
[00:09:54] Speaker C: I was in the Army National Guard in Missouri. And we had a base. Our headquarters was in Lone Jack, Missouri.
I remember I was in spring training in 1970. I'd signed up after the 69 season for the National Guard and was promised that I wouldn't be activated until the following October after the season.
Well, April 2nd, I got the notice to report to Fort Knox, Kentucky for my basic training. So if my season was over right then. But yeah, I was in the National Guard. Many, many players, baseball players, football players. I was in the same unit as John Stennerout, who was the kicker for
[00:10:34] Speaker A: the kicker for the Chiefs.
[00:10:36] Speaker C: And there were a lot of guys. Lupinella was in the reserves. John Mayberry was in the reserves. Willie Mitchell was also there. He was a defensive back for the Chiefs. But I remember we would have to report for two weeks of summer camp. So you'd miss two weeks out of the regular season. So I remember John Mayberry would fly down to Fort Leonard Wood on a private little plane and fly back for the game each night. So he never missed any games during that time.
Make a catch, Buck.
You got it.
Thank you very much. Thank you very much. You still got it.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:11:13] Speaker C: I could always catch. I couldn't hit. Yeah.
[00:11:18] Speaker D: So you were there for the first strike, which was in 1972 over. Primarily over pension benefits. Believe after the strike, which lasted 13 days at the beginning of April, the players got $500,000 extra in pension benefits.
Do you remember going through that? From what I've read, Marvin Miller was fairly hesitant to take the players into a strike. Didn't really know how unified they were or if they were ready to withstand it.
I believe Reggie Jackson and some other people sp.
Do you have any recollections of that time?
[00:12:00] Speaker C: I just remember that we weren't allowed to work out at the complexes. And, you know, a lot of teams would make sure that we had bats and balls and we'd work out. I remember working out at Edison College down in Fort Myers.
George Brett was there, and George and I were roommates. So we made sure that we put together as organized a workout as we could.
[00:12:23] Speaker D: You said that around the mid-70s was when you did start to get into union leadership, I think. Were you in Toronto back then or were you.
[00:12:32] Speaker C: No, I went from Kansas City to Milwaukee.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:35] Speaker C: Milwaukee was when I went to Milwaukee, Sal Banda was there.
[00:12:38] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:38] Speaker C: And Sal Banda was the one that really got me involved. He said, you know what?
We think that you'd be a good player rep. You've been around a while now. You've been on some good teams. You understand what's going on, and, well, we'd like you to be a player rep. So I was player rep in Milwaukee for a while, and that's when I really started to understand the significance of what we were doing and how important it was. And it was easy to sell it to us because a lot of us weren't making very much money in 1976. I was making $16,000 and my wife was making $19,000 flying for American Airlines as a flight attendant. So, you know, it was easy to convince a lot of the players that there were things to fight for. And we stayed pretty unified throughout that time.
[00:13:20] Speaker D: Your wife outearned you. You were in the Middle East?
[00:13:23] Speaker C: Absolutely. She had a better year than I had.
[00:13:27] Speaker D: So this was a time, obviously, when you look back, andy Messersmith, Dave McNally, Catfish Hunter, who signs a huge free agent deal.
You know, Curt Flood lost his Supreme Court case, but it did led to the overthrow of the reserve clause.
What was it like to be a player rep in the middle of all of this seismic activity?
Were you thinking to yourself, the history of baseball is changing here with all of these things going on?
Did you grasp the significance of it?
[00:14:02] Speaker C: Yeah, we understood it was a big time. I mean, for those guys to make the sacrifices they made was appreciated by all of the players. We knew exactly the importance of Curt Flood's statement saying, I don't want to play. I'm not a piece of material that you can just ship anywhere you want to. And, you know, we really appreciate it. And I don't think he gets the credit he deserves for the move, the moment, and the time that he did that. But McNally and Messerschmitt chose to challenge a reserve clause. They won their case, and then everybody became a free agent. I remember Marvin, when they first talked about it, they offered to be a free agent after one year, and he said, nah, I don't think that would be a good idea. Because if you think about it, if everybody's a free agent, each and every year, you'd flood the market with talent, so then the price would stay down. So Marvin had the foresight and the intelligence to say, six years sounds like a good number. And it was a great number. It's turned out to be a perfect number.
You know who you are. After six years, teams know who you are.
You know, you're obviously at a different place psychologically and mentally. You're an established big leaguer. And now it's time to make a tough decision and test the free agent market. So 6 years worked out perfectly. But initially I went from making $16,000 in 77 to making $60,000 in 78. So it was like a big jump. Actually.
It was.
I thought I was a millionaire making $60,000 a year, and it was a tremendous boost for everybody. But obviously that's when things really started to take off for the players.
[00:15:43] Speaker D: I mean, now it's sort of a given. Free agency is six years. But at the time, there was no history.
So you had to come upon the right formula, the right service time, and there was discussion that had to go into that.
[00:15:58] Speaker A: Right.
[00:15:58] Speaker D: A lot of back and forth with players to buy into free agency at that time.
It was very interesting, I'm sure, to be in those meetings.
[00:16:09] Speaker C: Yeah, it was very interesting because so many of the Players didn't really understand the impact of becoming a free agent. We knew that the situation we were under right now wasn't the best possible situation.
But with the leadership of Marvin and Gene Orza and Dick Moss and all those great attorneys we had at the time, they explained the ramifications of the benefits of being a free agent and selling yourself to the entire major league organization, as opposed to one team having rights to you forever. And it certainly changed the outcome for the entire group of players, no question about them.
[00:16:48] Speaker D: You also had salary arbitration at the time, which came into being. What do you recall about the evolution of salary arbitration being part of the system?
[00:16:56] Speaker C: I think salary arbitration had maybe even a bigger impact in salaries than free agency because you got to compare yourself to other players, and everybody found out what other players were making. I remember in one of my contract negotiations with the Royals, the general manager told me, listen, we're giving you a nice contract now, but you can't tell anybody else how much you're making because you're making more than anybody else in the catching department, which was a total lie.
But nobody knew what anybody was making. Nobody would talk about it. Nobody would even mention it. I mean, it was, like, taboo to talk about how much money you were making. I think we had maybe Cookie Rojas and Steve Busby making $80,000, probably the most that anybody made on our team in 75 and 76, but nobody would ever talk about money. But. So that's one thing that arbitration really did. When you saw what everybody was making, you understood where you stood in the ranking of salaries around baseball, and that you should be in a better spot than you actually were.
[00:18:01] Speaker D: The other thing that has affected tons of players through the years is the pension plan.
Again, your recollections of some of the fights that were made in the early years over the pension plan.
[00:18:15] Speaker C: Well, and that was one thing that we really noticed and recognized in 1985, when we came to an agreement early in the morning at Lee McPhail's apartment in just off Central Park.
Marvin Miller was there. He was not active anymore, but he was there as a consultant. Don Fear was the acting director at that time. He was the director of the Players association at that time. And we were negotiating late into the morning and. And finally came to an agreement. And as we left the apartment, we were walking down the street. I was on crutches at the time because I had broken my leg, and I'm walking next to Marvin. I said, marvin, what concerns you about this settlement?
He said, they finally figured out how to divide the union.
Young players fought for arbitration, Older players fought for the pension, and that's how they separated us. And it became quite, quite an issue. It became a point where the younger teams didn't care about the pension, the older teams didn't care about arbitration.
So they really found a way to divide the union. And it became quite concerning at that point because there was a lot of friction between the younger teams and the older teams to get a settlement. But fortunately it worked out in 85.
[00:19:30] Speaker D: A lot of times when you talk to players who are active in the union, they say, we want to make things better for future generations, which is a pretty common mantra, I guess.
How important was it for you as a player rep and somebody who was involved to also remember the guys who had been before you? And thinking about them in the middle of negotiations, I think it was easier
[00:19:56] Speaker C: for us to understand because when we first started to have rights for pension, I think it was five years of vesting for pension. And then we negotiated it down to four and three, and eventually now it's one year of service, and it's prorated, of course, to your service time. But it's a situation where you really have to appreciate who went before you and who fought before you. I understand now that there's so many players that come up and think that this has always been the same. It's always been like this. Well, it's not always been like that. And the history of the strikes and the labor problems emphasize that, that it's always been a fight. It's always been a struggle to get what we deserve as part of the overall revenue. I think the revenues.
At one point, we never really got to a 50% share of the revenues, I believe.
But the industry is such a big industry now. 10, $12 billion industry a year.
But I think that's what the players need to understand, because once the pendulum swings back in the owner's direction, it'll take a long time to get it back in the player's side. So they really need to stand up for what they believe in.
[00:21:12] Speaker D: Just the idea of going out on strike for ballplayers, it's probably anathema, you know, especially in 72 when you didn't know about it. You know, it was uncharited waters. Then you had the. In 76.
The big one, obviously in 1981 was over free agent compensation, pretty sure. Right.
And essentially free agency was a new thing. But if there was too much compensation, it really diminished the value of being a free agent.
That was a 60 day strike in the middle of the season. How big a test was that for the players?
[00:21:50] Speaker C: It was a huge test.
1981, I was in Toronto, got traded there in May and then we go on strike.
So when I got traded to Toronto, they said, don't bring your car, we'll give you a car when you get here, and all that. Well, when the strike happened, they took the car away. We're stranded in Toronto, nowhere to go. We had sold our house, we were moving houses and in between everything. So it was a tumultuous time for my wife and my family and I.
So 81, I became more involved. I flew to New York, I was involved in a lot of the meetings. We had a big meeting in LA at the airport. I think there were about 300 players there. There was a huge turnout. And that's, to me, where we really started to understand we've got to stick together. We can't show any cracks in our unity or else we will really suffer. So that meeting, I thought, was very pivotal in our strengthening and re energizing the base of players. Because everybody was there, everybody spoke out and there were a lot of guys that really spoke out. And at the time there were a few players getting paid because they had negotiated it in their contract.
And some guys were upset about that. But I think it was Reggie Smith who stood up and said, listen, every one of us would have done the same thing had we had the leverage to do that. And I don't blame those players for doing that. And we should still stay unified and back them too.
[00:23:15] Speaker D: When we spoke to Dave Stewart, I believe he was a young player, and he mentioned that Dusty Baker actually gave him some money to get him through it.
Was that common at the time? Were there guys who maybe had more money, who looked out for some of the younger players? Because at that time maybe the union wasn't quite as prepared for shutdown as it is now. How was it different, say in 1981?
[00:23:44] Speaker C: Yeah, in 81 there was a lot of guys that were really struggling. I had teammates in Toronto that took jobs that were actually working construction and laying bricks and things like that just to make it from week to week, because, you know, we didn't have the kind of resources that they have now, and as players or as a union. So I think over the years the union's done a good job of preparing for these types of things. But at that time, there were a lot of guys that helped out each other and a lot of families.
It was a different time for baseball at that time, because a lot of the families lived in the same buildings, they lived in the same area. Nobody had two cars. So we were carpooling. The wives would carpool. So the families were very close.
So we looked out for one another during that time. And oftentimes families would help one another. Potluck dinners, you go over and make sure everybody had enough to eat. But it was a tough time. 1981 was something I'll never forget.
[00:24:45] Speaker B: Swinging a drive, high five on left field.
[00:24:48] Speaker C: This is deep.
[00:24:49] Speaker B: This is 50.
Jose Batista, his first hit against Hernandez
[00:24:57] Speaker D: is home run number 50 with Marvin Miller. And then Don Fear.
What was their approach in terms of. A lot of times you get a bunch of ball players together, it's not as if they're going to be unanimity in what they think.
Letting them hash it out sometimes, letting them argue, letting them express their opinion.
How important was that to the overall dynamics in terms of contributing to unity at the end of the process?
[00:25:28] Speaker C: Yeah, I think the one thing, the real strength of Marvin Miller was he made us understand that it was our union. He would make suggestions and give you all of the ramifications of the different decisions you were going to make. But we made the decisions, we as players. And there were obviously always players that would speak up. Bob Boone would speak up, Kent Tacovi, Ted Simmons, Doug Descencia. There were a lot of guys that were very vocal about it, but in the end, Marvin Miller, Don Fear, they would all lay out all the different issues and the decisions that would be tied to those issues, and we, as the players, would make the final decision.
[00:26:07] Speaker D: One of the things I wanted to ask you about, Buck, was the term salary cap is in the news a lot.
Baseball is the only major sport without a salary cap.
How did you form your opinions about that?
It's not as if this year is the first time it's come up. When did you first hear about that?
And what were the players? What was their overall philosophy in terms of why they didn't want one in baseball?
[00:26:36] Speaker C: I think because it limits, you know, what the owners might pay in, and that's a concern. And everybody argues, well, the other leagues have salary caps and they're doing just fine. Well, I think the one thing that we always used to think about was if baseball players can see the owner's books, then we would have an opinion of what's right and what's wrong. But that's never happened, of course. The supreme court decision in 22, Oliver Wendell Holmes made a decision that baseball wasn't an industry. It was a sport. It was a recreational sport. Well, obviously we know it's a very lucrative business now, but the owners, there are only two publicly held companies, the Atlanta Braves and the Toronto Blue Jays. So those are the only teams that really have the requirements of showing the books. But yeah, the owners, I mean, I would love to see the New York Yankees put profile and see their books and see how much money they're actually making because they're a worldwide brand. Same for the Dodgers. So I don't think we'll ever know that. And I think that's why players are reluctant to even consider a salary cap, because just the definition of capping anything. Why would we cap it when the industry's doing so well?
[00:27:52] Speaker D: What were the issues that really were most important to you that you felt most passionate about?
[00:27:58] Speaker C: Well, obviously the reserve cause and the thing that we finally had, free agency. But then there was the collusion issue too. And people forget about that era where the owners colluded and made offers. I was a free agent, I believe in 83 or 84 and had three offers, totally identical offers, you know, like three year contracts, same figure, same money total. And it was. But I was never in a position to really fight that much for it. Many of the big free agents did and they got rewarded once the collusion thing was settled. But I think free agency was a big concern. The pension was a big concern for, like I said, for our generation. But I think it was just the fact that we just wanted what was fair. I think that's all that everybody ever wanted. Just treat us fairly and we will be happy to play forever and ever.
[00:28:54] Speaker D: Sometimes you hear in these negotiations, fans will say there's billionaires on one side and millionaires on the other side. You probably heard that sometimes as a player rep.
What's your response to that?
[00:29:07] Speaker C: I think too, and a lot of people say, well, they're getting paid millions of dollars to play a kid's game. I mean, that was always something we always heard. But you know, people don't realize what kind of effort it takes to be a major league player. You go to spring training in Arizona, then you go to your team in Milwaukee, and then you get traded from Milwaukee to Toronto and everybody's got to move around. There are a lot of things that people don't really see about the industry, but being a major league player takes a lot of determination, a lot of focus and a lot of drive. And I think that's the one thing that when you think about it, there's Been fewer, I believe fewer than 25,000 major league players in the history of the game.
That's a small crowd at a ballpark these days, so it's pretty special and I think they should be rewarded accordingly.
[00:29:55] Speaker D: And you also played 17 years.
Did you ever dream that you would outlast so many other players who probably were super talented who played four, five, six years and then had to find something else to do in their late 20s?
[00:30:11] Speaker C: I never, ever thought about being a professional baseball player. I just played because I like to play. I didn't get drafted out of high school. I went to junior college and got drafted after my freshman year of junior college. I just always felt like I don't want anybody to take my job.
Whatever it takes, I'm going to do that extra to make sure nobody takes my job. And that served me well because I never played every day as a regular player. So I had to make up for those at bats and those innings behind the plate in winter ball.
So I really spent a lot of time making sure that I always had a job because I was a backup catcher. And on many of those teams, Kansas City, Milwaukee and Toronto, I would be the first name they would pencil in because I could be a backup catcher for their teams and they know that I would do a good job. But that was because I had to do all that extra work.
[00:31:03] Speaker D: Buck, in the course of looking up some of your background, I looked up, you know, some of the injuries you suffered, but I also saw this, which kind of blew me away. For Buck, November 1976 taught Life's Fragility. Arlene told him she was expecting their first child. On the same day Martinez was shot in the left eye while hunting. After nine hours of surgery for a detached retina, his vision devolved. From 2015 to 2050, 2250. I went from playoff catcher to fourth string catcher, he said, drolly, though the incident was no laughing matter.
That's true. That's crazy.
[00:31:45] Speaker C: I hunted a lot, hunted almost every day, and one of my teammates kept bugging me to take him hunting. And I knew he wasn't a very good hunter. But one afternoon I said, okay, I'll take you hunting and I'll be your guide. And we'll just walk through this little gully here and there'll be some quail down here and I'll be right up there on that little knoll. And don't shoot in that direction, but when the dog stops, there's covey of quail there and then they'll flush out and you'll have a shot. Well, before he got to the dog, he stepped on a quail and it flew up and he shot in my direction. And I got hit in the face with a bunch of shotgun BBs, and one of them went in my left eye. But, yeah. And when I got home.
Well, I didn't get home. I went to three different hospitals before I ended up in the final hospital. And I called my friend and said, tell Arlene I've been shot.
That was the message. I've been shot. Didn't say what kind of shot, where I was shot or how I was doing.
So, yeah, it was kind of like a country western music right then.
Little country western song. I've been shot. My wife's pregnant, a dog.
And a lot of things were going bad at that point, but we got through it.
[00:32:59] Speaker D: You were also involved in one of the most insane plays in baseball history in 1985, July 9th at the Kingdome.
You broke your leg and severely dislocated your ankle in a collision with the Seattle Mariners. Phil Bradley, who later went to work for the Union, still works for the Union. Gorman Thomas tried to score. You tagged out Phil, and then Gorman tried to score. You threw it out into left field, the ball went out, came back, and you tagged him out. So you tagged out two guys with a broken leg at home play.
[00:33:36] Speaker C: Yeah, it's the only time it's happened. A 9272 double play. We were on the west coast playing in Seattle, and we weren't scoring many runs. And Bobby Cox came to me that day and said, you're catching tonight. It wasn't my turn to catch. Ernie Witten and I were splitting up time, but we had called up a pitcher to make his debut with the Boo Jays, Tom Filer. So I was going to catch him. And sure enough, Gorman gets a base hit. Phil's at second base. Jesse Barfield, our right fielder, had a great arm, threw a perfect throw, one hop right to me. I turned around, and before I could get turned around, Phil hit me in the shoulder, my foot stuck in the dirt, dislocated my ankle, broke my leg.
And I saw Gorman running from second to third, sitting on my butt. I threw it past Garth Orge at third base. George Bell picked it up down in the bullpen in left field and threw back, perfect one hop, little one hopper right into my glove, and I tagged out Gorman.
[00:34:31] Speaker D: Do people still bring that up to you?
[00:34:33] Speaker C: Yeah, all the time. Two things that really reflect my career.
17 years I played.
That's what they remember me As a player, the fact that I broke my leg on a double play, and as a broadcaster for 37 years, what they remember most is that I didn't talk for 22 minutes when Cal Ripken broke Lou Gehrig's record and he was running around the field. And we win an Emmy Award. So it tells you all about my career as a player and a broadcaster. I was better when I didn't do anything.
[00:35:03] Speaker D: You let the scene speak for itself.
[00:35:06] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:35:07] Speaker D: Buck, after your baseball career, you went on to a long career in the broadcast booth in Toronto, in Baltimore, with espn, I believe it was your wife who was your best coach and critic. Correct.
In terms of helping you figure out how to do that, what do you recall about getting into broadcasting and how you navigated your way through that, that industry?
[00:35:34] Speaker C: I actually did some radio broadcasting while I was still playing in Toronto. I did the All Star Game, the playoffs, in the World Series, on radio with Tom Cheek. And at the end of my career, 1986, Jimmy Williams, the manager, asked me on the final day of the season if I could come into the office on Monday.
Well, obviously, you know, that's the message, and the meeting is going to be, well, you. You're not wanted anymore. So I went into that meeting. Pat Gillick, Paul Beeston and Jimmy Williams were in the meeting, and they called me in the office and sat down and said, well, we don't know how to tell you this, but Pat, who was always very emotionally tied to his players, got very emotional and said, it's hard for us to say this, but we're not going to bring you back next year. And I said, well, listen, I came here thinking I was going to play one year. I played six years here. We had some great times, and I really appreciate the opportunity. Paul Beeston, who was the president of the club at that time, said, albert. He always called me by my middle name. He said, albert, you want to do television? I said, no, Beast, I think I'm going to see if I can play another year.
So I go back home, I tell my wife what happened, and she said, what'd you tell Beeston?
I said, no, I'm going to try to play. He said, call him back. You can't play anymore. So I called him back and said, yeah, I would consider doing TV. And went right into TV in 1987.
[00:37:03] Speaker D: What has that meant to you through all those years in tv, especially in Toronto? The impact that you have in people's lives? What did that teach you about just the impact of broadcaster can have and I assume you can't go anywhere in Toronto without people stopping you and wanting to talk to you, right?
[00:37:25] Speaker C: Well, it's really interesting. I started in 87 as a full time TV broadcaster.
Game 7 of the 2025 World Series was my last game.
So it was a big long run as a broadcaster, which I was very fortunate to do.
And this August, they're going to enshrine me into what they call the level of excellence, the hall of Excellence. They used to put the names up on the level of excellence and now they're developing a new hall of excellence and I'm going to be the first inductee. So we're really looking forward to that weekend. But the fans have treated me so well in Toronto.
Obviously, I started out as a very novice broadcaster and I was fortunate to do so many great games.
I was with the team in 92 and 93 when they won the World Series. And like I said, the last game I ever did as a Broadcaster was game seven of the 2025 World Series, which was an epic World Series game.
[00:38:21] Speaker D: And then the other leg of your career. Well, there's two other legs. You're an author, right? You've written three books and you were a manager in Toronto, but also in the wbc.
The WBC in particular.
What did that mean to you and what does it maybe teach you about baseball as an international sport and what it can do on a global level?
[00:38:47] Speaker C: I'm very proud to have been the first manager for Team USA in 2006.
We didn't know much about the impact of the tournament at that time, and I actually called every player and recruited them myself.
And I remember talking to Chipper Jones. I called up Chipper, I said, chipper, we'd like you to play for Team USA in the World Baseball Classic. And he said, I've been waiting my whole life to play for my country.
Derek Jeter had a similar response. I said, we want you to play for Team usa. He goes, who do you want me to recruit? He was all in and it was tremendous.
But one of the great things I remember in Anaheim, we're playing against team Japan and I go to home plate to exchange lineup cards with none other than Sadaharu oh, the great home run champ.
And Bob Davidson was the umpire.
And Bob said, Mr. Oh, how many home runs did you hit?
858. Buck. How many? I said, bob, don't even go there. It was a great honor to be up there with Sadahar. Oh, the guy that hit more home runs than anybody. He was A phenomenal player and obviously the first manager for team Japan.
[00:40:05] Speaker D: How many home runs did you hit?
[00:40:06] Speaker A: Puck?
[00:40:07] Speaker C: 52, 58, something like that. Not 800, that's for sure.
[00:40:11] Speaker D: The other thing in your career, you were the president of bat, the Baseball Assistance Team for several years. What impact did that have on you? What did you see that really stuck with you as head of the Baseball Assistance Team?
[00:40:31] Speaker C: It was interesting because I, you know, as a player, we used to hear them come around and make their spiel and I didn't really pay much attention, think much of it. But when you get involved with the organization, you understand how much good they can do. And the Baseball Assistance Team is funded by active players.
They have a salary deduction form that they agreed to in spring training. And I believe last year they donated almost $5 million to help out BAT. And what BAT does, it's a short term bridge that helps families get back on their feet, to give them the ability to pay rent, to buy food, to pay for education, different things. We have a great team of drug and alcohol counselors that can help guys through tough times. But the Baseball Assistance Team does a great job. And it's not just for major league players, minor league players, minor league umpires, minor league clubhouse people, anybody that's been involved, we have certain standards of service time. But anybody that's been involved in the baseball family that falls upon hard times, we're there to help them bridge the gap and get them back on their feet. We have one young kid, Jackson, that had seven open heart surgeries and BAT paid for each and every one of those. His father was a bullpen catcher for the Chicago Cubs. So it's not just the stars we take care of, we take care of the baseball family. But there's so many situations where players have fallen on hard times. They're involved in drug and alcohol abuse. We'll get them back on their feet. I remember one situation. We were having a dinner during one of our winter meetings and our counselor got a call and during that dinner he literally talked somebody off the ledge who was about to commit suicide. But there's so many great stories that BAT has helped people survive and get through tough times. But BAT's a wonderful organization. Again, I've got to emphasize that it's the active players that fund it and give us the ability to help out these families. It's really a great thing that the active players do each and every year.
[00:42:40] Speaker D: You came to the executive board meeting in Scottsdale in December.
You were on a panel with Cecil Fielder, Phil Garner, Mike Fetters and Bobby Bonilla and shared your thoughts, too, with the players. Why was it important for you guys to speak in front of these guys personally and travel to a place and share your thoughts when it wasn't the easiest thing for any of you under the circumstances?
[00:43:11] Speaker C: Yeah, because we wanted to be there and be able to talk to these players in this generation about what the history of the organization has been, about what it took to stay together and fight and get through those tough times. 1981, 1994.
I mean, the game was shut down and we had the wherewithal to stick together and make sure that we didn't show any cracks and didn't cave under the pressure. And it was quite a commitment by a number of players. And I think it's important for these players to understand they're going to be challenged the same way that we were in 85, in 94. And there's going to be a lot of tough times ahead, but they're going to have to stay together and united and resolved in their beliefs that what they have earned, they need to maintain that bark.
[00:44:09] Speaker D: As somebody whose whole life you really owe so much to baseball, starting out as a kid in the 60s, you know, through 60 years in different aspects, what does just being part of that entire family of players in particular mean to you personally?
[00:44:27] Speaker C: I don't think you really realize it, and I'm just now starting to realize it as I've stepped away from the game, about how much you impact people.
I still get letters requesting autographs for baseball cards every single day, and they'll talk about going to a game in Kansas City, going to a game in Milwaukee, seeing you play. And it's when you play, you just don't realize how much impact you have on that kid sitting in the stands.
I'll never forget what George Brett said about his career when somebody asked him, how do you want to be remembered?
And he said, I want to hit a ground ball to the second baseman.
I want to run as hard as I can to first base and get thrown out by half a step and have a dad in the stand say that's the same way he started.
He played like that every single day. And I always thought that was a great way to describe what it meant to be a major league player, because somebody out there is watching you for the first time, and you have to really embrace that.
[00:45:34] Speaker D: If I were a young player sitting here with you, tell me why it's important for me to know the history of the people who came before.
[00:45:45] Speaker C: I think it's very important for this generation of baseball players to understand baseball was not always like this.
Because of the reserve clause, you were tied to one team. No matter how good you were, you couldn't move, you couldn't improve your situation.
And the salaries, the money is wonderful.
Most players in the 60s and 70s actually had jobs in the off season. They would work in the off season. So there was no training, there was no hitting guru, there was no pitching coaches. They were working to survive, to get through the winter so they could get to that next baseball season. So I think it would be important for these guys to understand as good as things are today and as good as things are with you personally right now, that can all evaporate if you don't pay attention to what's going on with your union and what's going on with the negotiations between the baseball clubs and your union. Because once that goes away, it's very, very difficult to get it back. And we fought long and hard over many years of labor unrest to get baseball where it is today. And I think it's in a pretty good spot. And myself and a lot of my colleagues that worked together at that time take a lot of pride in where baseball is today. We don't begrudge these players one thing. We're very happy for them, and we just hope they understand that they need to pass it along to the next generation of players.
[00:47:15] Speaker A: Thank you to Buck Martinez for his generosity and his time. This has been an episode of Stitch by Stitch, connecting players from the past, present and future. This episode was written and produced by Jerry Krasnick, with research and production support from Pablo Ocariz, Pablo Bauza, Jordan Score and Eva Amrez. This episode was edited and mixed by Mark Levine, with additional video editing from David Hattie and Michael Scribonia. Our supervising producer was Rachel Gross.
Emily Kless provided art direction and media strategy, and our executive producers were Roz Grove Vara and Gretchen Mueller. The Stitch by Stitch podcast is an MLBPA Audio original.
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