Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the Players Association Stitch by Stitch podcast where we talk to current and former players about union history, baseball, and the bond that players share across generations.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: So David Artsma retires all six and he gets his first major league save. The Reds have the winning run at third and nobody out. And Aardsma miraculously finds his way through this week's game.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: Guest is David Aardsma, who has the distinction of ranking first alphabetically among the roughly 24,000 players who've worn a major league uniform. That puts him just a constant ahead of a guy named Henry Aaron.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Whenever I get letters in the mail, I still get like three letters a day. It's always, hey, did you know? But I always had the fun part was when I did do it in Houston, I think in my rookie year in 04, and I passed him and so I got him before Barry Bonds got him. And I was on the Giants with Barry because he was chasing down Hank.
I had a quote, I said, I owe it all to my parents.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: David gave up his early dream of being an Air Force pilot to pursue a baseball career and signed with the Giants as a first round pick in 2003.
Over the next decade plus, he pitched in eight MLB cities and made 18 more stops in the minors and independent ball.
Along the way, he assumed a leadership role in the union, attended all the meetings and never lost sight of his responsibility to make things better for the game or the players who followed. It was one of the best ways he knew to give back and to leave it better.
[00:01:49] Speaker C: So we're here today with David Aardsma, former major league pitcher. Welcome to Stitch by Stitch, David.
[00:01:54] Speaker B: Thank you for having me, man. This is awesome.
[00:01:56] Speaker C: One of the things that's funny when you look up David Aardsma, they always say you're the first guy alphabetically you surpassed Hank Aaron.
How often do you hear that? And do you get a bit of a kick out of that?
[00:02:09] Speaker B: So I hear it when I talk to people about baseball. First time I ever meet them, every single time. It always comes up. It's so normal. Whenever I get letters in the mail, I still get three letters a day. It's always, hey, did you know?
I kind of know.
But I always had the fun part was when I did do it in Houston, I think it was my Rookie year in 04 and I passed him. And so I got him before Barry Bonds got him. And I was on the Giants with Barry because he was chasing down Hank.
I had a quote, I said I owe it all to my parents. Obviously the kind of Double sided joke there and. And ended up being on Jeopardy. As one of the questions on Jeopardy.
[00:02:49] Speaker C: So the question is alphabetically, who's the first player in baseball history?
[00:02:54] Speaker B: Yeah, it was, you know, the answer is, you know, after surpassing this man, you know, David Arts was said I owe it all to my parents.
[00:03:03] Speaker C: Oh.
[00:03:04] Speaker B: So Hank Aaron got to be the real answer. But.
[00:03:07] Speaker C: Yeah. You never met Hank, did you?
[00:03:09] Speaker B: Never, Never met Hank. I tried to several times. I wanted to do this little photo thing with him and with it all, but I know his health was a little failing and it was hard and you know, it's one of those things, it's one of those icons. You just. He's on a different status. So you try to always like get to know and get to see him, but, you know, he was just struggling.
[00:03:27] Speaker C: So you're from Colorado, which has produced Roy Holiday, Brad Lynch, Kevin Gosman, Goose Gossage, Kyle Freeland, I think is from out there.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: I think so.
[00:03:38] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm missing some guys.
[00:03:40] Speaker B: Jax, who just threw in the wbc.
[00:03:42] Speaker C: Griffin Jax. Right.
[00:03:43] Speaker B: Jax went to my high school. Yeah, a lot of great players. It's such a sleeper little place. And Bradley, my idol growing up. So we went to the same high school and so I always wanted to be Bradledge.
So that. Yeah, Cherry Creek High School and some great players. But obviously it's a small baseball community,
[00:04:01] Speaker C: especially up there, so I didn't realize. Yes, I had forgotten this. But you actually went to Penn State for a year, where my daughter went.
She's a Nittany lion as well. We are, yeah. Yeah, we are.
But then you went to Rice and pitched on a college World Series championship team.
What did that do for you, just as a springboard to the next step?
[00:04:22] Speaker B: Well, you know, you go to college and back then transfers weren't as normal and I had to ask for a transfer and had to get it approved. And whether you're gonna sit out, you don't know. And so I took a chance at Penn State and I didn't see my career going the path I wanted it to. I loved the path. People at Penn State, still Penn State, Nittany Line through and through. But when you have an opportunity to play for a place like Rice at that time, which was a major league powerhouse of producing talent, you know, two first rounders the year I got there, four first rounders on the team I was on, the first thing you find out is they treat you like a professional. Said, but you have to act like a professional here. And so we're going to Teach you how to be a professional, how to act like it, how to play like it, how to win like it, how to lose like it.
And that's the attitude we took. And you end up winning a national championship because you have, you know, 24 guys, whatever the roster was, that are one direction, one mindset, and you're. You're a team, you're a unit, and I love this. So from a springboard standpoint, you are ready. You know, I got some minor leagues, and I'm like, man, I'm ready for this. I'm prepared. Now it's just a matter of adjusting to a minor league, like travel, minor league living conditions, you know, all of those things that affect you as a professional player. Getting your first paycheck and what you know, those type of situations are a little bit different now. Players today are obviously getting a little bit money in college, and so you have to adjust to those things. But when you're with a place and you take it with a mindset of being professional.
Yeah. You're prepared the moment you walk in.
[00:05:53] Speaker C: 22nd pick in the first round by the Giants.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:05:58] Speaker C: How vivid is your draft day experience etched in your memory?
[00:06:05] Speaker B: There's one little black spot, one little dark spot that I don't know what happened. I didn't even know at the time.
So back then, Right. So it's not on tv. You didn't have like, the national broadcast, Like, MLB Network does such an amazing job with it. It's so fun to watch and to see the emotion from players getting drafted. We used. It was on the Internet, right? It was just on, like, so you had to log in and hopefully you got the feed and hopefully it wasn't delayed.
So, you know, we're in Houston and I think it was like 11am Was the draft.
We had practice that afternoon.
So, you know, there's a timeline where you can wait and hang out, but then you got to go to practice. So I went up to my mom and dad's house and I told my dad, like, we are. I'm not going to listen to this thing. I can't do it. I have too much emotion.
So we went to go wash his car and you know, if it's 11 o', clock, it's going to start. We went about 10:30, we start washing. We're taking time and pretty soon it's like 11, 11:15, 11:30, nothing. We're washing it like three times. Washing his car, and it's like 12 o' clock is when I finally get my first phone call.
And all I heard was, you were drafted. Congratulations.
And then they hung up.
And my dad goes, what happened? And I'm like, I got drafted. He goes, by who? And I go, I don't know. Really needs to win. I don't know. Cause I think I just blacked out the moment I heard you got drafted. You know, congratulations. You know, we took you with the.
And it just done. Like, my brain went, done. And then I get, you know, five minutes later, I get a phone call from my mom, like, oh, my. Freaking out. So first round by the Giants.
It was just such a moment where you just go, like, you're out. And just. I'd wanted to play major league baseball, you know, from a. From a little kid. I wanted to do two things. I wanted to, you know, growing up in Colorado, I wanted to be an Air Force pilot and I wanted to play major league baseball. Air Force was the first place that ever sent me a letter for, to recruit and all that stuff. So that was really neat. But I knew I couldn't do both paths at that time. And then, you know, I had that. That one next step to go play major league Baseball. And. And it didn't matter with who. I just wanted to play major league baseball.
[00:08:21] Speaker C: So you talked about being prepared on the field because of rice.
What about just the conditions in the minor leagues and the travel and the food? And was that an eye opener for you?
[00:08:34] Speaker B: Yes.
Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches became my best friend, my food of choice. Before, after, during games.
[00:08:42] Speaker C: What were your minor league towns?
[00:08:45] Speaker B: Okay, so again, I played for 14 teams, some, like 20, some minor league cities. I played in San Jose.
Now I'm just gonna go all off San Jose, Charlotte. But this was not Charlotte. It was about 30 minutes south of Charlotte was what they called Charlotte, Des Moines, Fresno, Norwich, Connecticut, you know, all. All over the place. But, you know, the eye opener is, you know, in college, a lot of things are built around you about one team success. And it's. It's really simple.
The minors, what was eye opening was that every team, everywhere you go, they're handling it. You know, you have a road club and, you know, you have to be paying out of your own pocket, you know, to pay them for your food. One of the biggest things in my career that I ever saw was the minor league conditions changing. And especially towards the end of my career when I was with the Dodgers, and I believe it was 2015, was when they bought. They paid for nutritionists to travel with us. And that was a whole brand new thing. The way they were Pushing that and pushing nutrition for the minor leaguers, eating with them was a whole other monster. And it was wonderful.
Took a lot to get going because they didn't want pitchers to be eating too much like bad food right before a game. And my bad was bread. I'm like, I'm not doing anything for two and a half hours. But seeing that transition and seeing the minor league pay, you know, I. When I went through the Blue Jays, I took a front office job with the Blue Jays for three years, ran their pitching for three years in the minor leagues. And we institute at the time pay, we like tripled our minor league pay. And that was a huge, massive deal.
[00:10:24] Speaker C: This was before the unionization of the Miners. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: And being a part of, you know, a small part of some of those decisions or just even being a part of that, to see how that would change players lives was absolutely incredible.
[00:10:38] Speaker C: Right, right.
So you made your major league debut with the Giants. I think it was a bit rocky. Right.
Kind of brief, maybe 10, 12 innings, I think. Right.
What do you remember about your call up and your debut?
[00:10:57] Speaker B: Well, I ended up having, I think, sent up and down six times or seven times. My rookie year, 2004.
[00:11:03] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: Drafted. 03. I made the team out of spring training. 04.
[00:11:07] Speaker C: Very quick, very quick.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: And. And so I went to hi A and then hi A. Straight to the big leagues.
My spring training, I dominate. Absolutely dominated. And so I'll just say this. One of the trainers walked in the very first day and said, hey, I'm the double A trainer. I'm going to be having you this year. In the back of my mind, I was like, no, absolutely not. Nothing wrong with them. Nothing wrong with that if that happens. But I even told him later, I'm like, I wasn't going to allow that to happen.
[00:11:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:34] Speaker B: And if it did, it did. But I'm going to do everything I possibly can. So I got the, I got the, the sit down meeting, which you would see now on social media blasted everywhere. Like, you know, you made the team type of meeting.
But our opening, first opening series was in Houston, which was where Rice is. So I just came from Rice, going to Houston to have the opening series.
And so immediately they're like, we'll get tickets.
You're going to want 50 a game. We got you. And I did.
I think I requested 50 a day. I don't think I had a paycheck first couple of months after having to pay for all those tickets.
But that Houston team was an incredible team.
[00:12:12] Speaker C: It was bagwell and Biggio and Burke
[00:12:15] Speaker B: Hidalgo and like Clemens. Pettit just signed with the team. You know, they've got the back in the bullpen of like, you know, I think it was Dotel, Wagner, Lydge. I don't know if Wagner was still there, but Dotel, who like Hampton and
[00:12:30] Speaker C: Shane Reynolds and this was after them.
[00:12:32] Speaker B: I think it was a little after.
[00:12:33] Speaker C: Yeah, that was. But that was Clemens and Petta.
[00:12:35] Speaker B: Yeah, Clemens had it. And so opening day, you know, incredible being part of that and walking on the field.
I got my call the second game and second game of the season. I think it was Pettit's first ever game as an Astro. Being from Houston, those guys were having their like homecoming too.
We were losing, I think five to two, something like that, four to two.
I came in like the fourth inning or third inning through the third and fourth, we were still losing when I left the game. We scored a couple runs in the seventh, but by scores discretion, I get the win.
Makes no sense. I still don't know why they did it, but the score came down or one of the newspaper guys told me, you know, they decided that you had the most impact on the Giants win from a pitching standpoint.
So I got a win like on a scorer's discretion. My very first ever game.
And that just, you know, that kind of like perfect ending to the story, you know, and kind of fun afterwards. Went to think IHOP afterwards and I don't celebration with my friends at ihop.
[00:13:38] Speaker A: Geez.
[00:13:38] Speaker C: Yeah. You splurged?
[00:13:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Went crazy.
[00:13:40] Speaker C: You went nuts.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Hardspaw almost knocked down. Gets up and makes the play.
Quick pitching here. So he's learned that from Hawkins.
[00:13:48] Speaker A: Change up.
[00:13:49] Speaker C: Oh, behind the back.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: Very nice play.
[00:13:52] Speaker C: A lot of times it's interesting when we talk to guys about the players who were the formative influences on them when they got up and maybe just taught them how to be a pro. But also maybe that there was a business side to it.
Were there influences that stood out in your mind that to this day you said, really, you know, took me under their wing early and made a big difference in my career.
[00:14:17] Speaker B: You know, there's a lot of different players. It's hard to always put like on one guy. I didn't have like a one player mentor. And I think a lot of that's because I changed teams a lot, you know, especially early. So 04 and with the Giants middle of 05, I get traded to the Cubs, you know, 05 and 06, I'm with the Cubs. 07. I'm with the White Sox. So I had a lot of these different moments and a lot of different players. So I got to experience how a lot of players viewed being a professional. And I had a whole lot of different people telling me how to be professional.
So I had to find my way a lot of the times.
And it wasn't until probably 08, when I was with the Boston Red Sox, when I had, like, Jason Vertek was the first player to really kind of like, grab me and talk about thinking different and coming to the ballpark with a different mindset. I was a guy that always worked, I always wanted. I had my own way. I was trying to prep in my own way and figure it out. And I was up and down, up and down a lot. And.08 with Veritech and seeing guys like a Josh Beckett, Tim Wakefield, you know, Mike Timlin was huge. And probably Timlin was probably the first guy that really became a mentor.
Him and Veritek, which are, I mean, just legends where they kind of said, hey, like, this is your past, rookie. Your past being young, you've had enough years. Even though I was a young player, you know, even though I was like 26, 27, you know, but I still at that point already had like four years. They're like, this is the way. And so, you know, it's important, I'd say early on is to find somebody, find a veteran, somebody you believe in and just follow them around. Be annoying, be annoying. Go to dinner, go to lunch, go. You know, when you travel and arrive to the city early, go to dinner with guys and just talk baseball, talk experiences, talk away. It's like being, you know, baseball has changed, you know, a lot. And it's. It's for the great. It's. It, you know, baseball's amazing now.
So I don't want to say my generation was better or we did it different. We did do it different, but it's not. But what we had to do for our generation. And I loved it.
So I always tell everybody, like, first thing to do, grab a veteran player, you know, be. Just open yourself up and say, hey, like, help me, help guide me, you know, Giants, you know, I think a lot of players are the Giants and not necessarily a bad thing. Viewed me as an outsider because I was the only rookie on the team, super veteran team.
And I was hunting for their jobs, and I think they felt maybe a little, you know, like, hey, I might have taken a veteran guy's job. And the Cubs guys started opening up a lot more, you know, Ryan Dempster, Will Ohman was great.
You know, the bullpen, well, those are
[00:17:08] Speaker C: like the amazing bullpen guys.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: Right.
[00:17:10] Speaker C: Being part of those bullpen communities can be your own world unto itself. Right? Ryan Dempster and Scott Eyre. Yeah, yeah.
[00:17:18] Speaker B: And great guys. And, and I'd still gotta say, like, you know, Matt Herges with the Giants and some of those other guys in that bullpen, but it was definitely a different feel there. And then as you play more guys are a little bit more accepting of you and, and you're not just the, the 21 year old kid, you know, in the big leagues.
But I, I'd always tell everybody, find somebody, find a veteran, find a player, and just talk baseball and talk life. Stay after the game. Don't be in a rush to leave the clubhouse.
I think that was one of the big things for me is I was never in a rush to leave.
I wanted to be in that clubhouse and just be around guys. You know, Barry Bonds and I had a great relationship because I just hung out. I had nowhere to go. I lived in the apartment right next to the stadium. I had no friends on the team. I didn't know anybody. You know, I didn't come through the organization. I just, I jumped everywhere. So all my friends were still in Double A, and so I ended up just being in the clubhouse. So Barry Bonds is hanging out. And so I got to hang out with Barry every night and he would tell me life stories about him and his dad and, you know, like his transition and where he was and, you know, and then after every, every night he told me not to tell anybody, but very openly telling everybody.
[00:18:26] Speaker C: Now you saw a different side of Barry than other people did.
[00:18:29] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:18:30] Speaker C: And.
[00:18:31] Speaker B: But that just. I found out by just hanging, by just talking, saying, hey, let's grab dinner. You know, like, let's do like, we would fold clothes, we would fold, like with Murph in San Francisco, you know, the clubhouse, we'd fold towels together with him and like, what is going on? Barry Bonds doesn't do this. But Barry Bonds told me never to tell anybody. He would do it, you know, and then even when I was with the Cubs, he came out in the middle of batting practice and paraded me around the field in the headlock, you know, But I wouldn't have found out if I wouldn't have just been open to this. They've been around, right?
[00:19:06] Speaker C: You were kind of like the military kid who went to a different school every year and needed to get outside his shell to meet people, right? Yes. Yeah.
[00:19:16] Speaker B: And, and so because I didn't have that natural built in where you're coming through the minors, you have your draft class and I didn't have that, that experience. And then you get traded and you have none of those minor league guys. So now your first day you're coming to the camp and like, hey, hey guys. And then you get traded again, then it becomes just who you are and you figure it out a lot later on as a veteran. You figure out it's a lot easier because, well, you get traded, other guys got traded there, you have a built in thing, but you have to just have that openness to you and say, hi, I'm David, get over it and just start meeting people and have a great time.
[00:19:52] Speaker C: So I think we were talking about this.
I said, geez, you played for eight teams? And you said, no, I played for 14 teams but 20 minor league cities.
[00:20:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Something crazy.
[00:20:03] Speaker C: Can you just maybe relate to the average person who thinks baseball is sort of glamorous?
What it's like, what are the specific things that you have to deal with? Do you, are you always, do you feel like you're always looking for an apartment? Are you always trying to rent a car?
What are those logistical things that you have to deal with that maybe people don't know about off the field?
[00:20:29] Speaker B: Yeah, one of the, one of the big things is find a partner, find a wife that is a girlfriend that is rock, that is steady, that can handle that type of life. So I think a lot of players find somebody who isn't prepared for that. You're not prepared for it as a player. You're not.
Can you, can you find somebody that's there that you're rocking? If you don't have it, then find parent, find friend that dad rock. I always tell guys, and have a home somewhere, that's where you go back to. Don't be traveling all the way around and never have a place to go. But that lifestyle is always.
I'll never forget this. I was driving down to.
I, drafted by the Giants, did my signing day in San Francisco, taking the pictures, all the fun stuff.
Their assistant GM is driving me down to. Bobby Evans is driving me. Bobby Evans, Bobby Evans, I ended up being the gm, right?
Was driving me to San Jose and he said, hey. He goes, we're driving to San Jose. I might get a phone call halfway and decide you're not going to, you're not going to San Jose. He goes, that's the major league life.
He goes, if you want to make it and you want to play this Game for a long time. Be ready for that phone call at all moments at the same time, never expect that phone call. You know, he goes, but be ready for when it comes. He goes, if you get the phone call, be ready for it, expected it, but because players play yourself in a position to where you get that phone call and you have to go somewhere else and you're getting called up and you know, so always be ready to be packed. Always, never be wherever you're playing.
Always be fighting for the next level, but never expect it.
And so that found out that very quickly, although from dry down, I don't think a whole lot of people get to ride with this as a GM to their first place.
But I, but I started the season there and then I realized very quickly, like I don't want to end here. I don't want to have a career minor league or I want to be a major league player. And to live that lifestyle, I have to always be ready packed, always be ready to go. You know, fall in love with buses, fall in love with 5am flights on the PCL, you know, Pacific Coast League and enjoy it. That's the things I miss now is those moments that getting done with the game, packing your bus to, you know, getting your pillow and just being with your guys, those are the moments I miss the most. It's not on the field, it's off the field, it's playing cards on a bus or, or, or the plane ride in major league city and like, where are we going to dinner? What are we doing? Those are the moments that I always love. But those are the hard parts. Those are the parts that you're always on the go. You're, you're, you never have that home. You, you're, you're, you know, you're not making the money you want to be making. You now have the position you want to have, yet you fall in love with that grind. And it is not glamorous, it is not beautiful, it's not easy. You're at the, you're at the ballpark, you know, you should be at the ballpark, you know, at whatever at noon every day or 12 o' clock every day. And you're not leaving until midnight. You're working, you're grinding.
That's, that's the beauty is the, that it's not easy.
[00:23:36] Speaker C: So when did you get married?
[00:23:38] Speaker B: I got married 2008. Was, was when I got married.
[00:23:41] Speaker C: Okay, so you were fairly early to middle of your career.
[00:23:45] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:23:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: And you know, we met in 2006 actually. I had a spring training game. She was heckling me.
[00:23:50] Speaker C: What's her name?
[00:23:51] Speaker B: You went, Andrea. Okay, Andrea. So she was heckling on the stands and she was making fun of me because I was a rookie. I couldn't give a ball away. And so I faked through it and walked away. And of course, all the veterans maybe keep going back out there after that. And she was just wearing me out. And I knew I fell in love with her like when she started making fun of me because any girl that's that can handle herself like that and have fun with it. It wasn't mean, obnoxious. She could handle herself and really, really quickly. But you have to find out. You know, I found out really early, like, hey, this is my lifestyle.
Would you ever be okay with something like this? She's like, hey, that's what you got to do to whatever you have to do to achieve your dreams.
[00:24:33] Speaker C: Right?
[00:24:33] Speaker B: You know, she was like, I got my own dreams. I'm going to be working on that. I'm like, she's great.
[00:24:38] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And she probably had to handle tons of those little details, right?
[00:24:43] Speaker B: Making the calls for the apartments, finding how to get her cars. I know you said that earlier.
How do I get a car from A to B? And if I can't do that, I'm already renting. What's the cost of renting a car for a season? And we've done that, you know, like how do I get a dog to a boys, you know, like when, when I'm somewhere and I'm there for two weeks, I just got trade or I just got called up, you know, what does that look like? You know, and she's the one making those phone calls. She's the one like having, having to handle all that, setting an apartment in New York at the same time. Now I just got traded, you know, and then now we have to find a place in Atlanta. We got to get out of Elise, you know, she's handling those things. And man, rock, absolute rock. So David Artsma takes over.
Speaking of throwing hard. He can throw hard. He is always throwing hard. The pitch from Arts Map, game over.
[00:25:34] Speaker C: So I looked through and correct me if I'm wrong, I think you were on the executive subcommittee, which is the big group of eight guys from 2010 through 2013, maybe two two year terms.
So for four years you were actually in the upper leadership.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:25:52] Speaker C: Were you a team rep before that? And how did you first. I know you mentioned Veritech early. I believe he was pretty instrumental or he was a guy who Was involved in the union quite a bit. But how did your union involvement materialize?
[00:26:09] Speaker B: I won, obviously. Always wanted to be a major league baseball player. Player. Being a part of the union wasn't part of that dream. Right. Like early on, you don't really realize it. I came in in 2004. That was the year, the first year of testing for drugs. So there was a lot going on from a union standpoint right before that that I wasn't a part of. So you're kind of walking into this whole new world and guys are upset. Guys are. You guys love it. You know, there's a whole lot of different stuff. A lot of emotion going on with that.
And publicly there's a ton of emotion going on with that. So that was my first kind of welcome party to this.
My big first real moment of union and realizing how important it is not just for you as a player, but a lot of people around you and a lot of people that you don't see was in 2008.
I was with the Boston Red Sox. We were about to go to Tokyo to go play the opening series against the A's.
And right before that, the. Again, I might killing exactly the story because I wasn't part of. I wasn't in that inner circle.
But I believe there was a disagreement on the moment we were about to leave where a lot of the staff wasn't going to get paid what the agreed terms were. And there was a different plane or different something.
And within those conversations, we're made aware of it as players saying, hey, all these things were negotiated and they are not standing up to their. Their side of it. I wasn't there for that. So I'm just trying to make a team at this point.
And we had to.
[00:27:41] Speaker C: Which staff is it?
[00:27:42] Speaker A: The.
[00:27:42] Speaker B: The Red Sox, the training staff.
[00:27:45] Speaker C: The team staff.
[00:27:46] Speaker B: The team staff.
[00:27:46] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:27:47] Speaker B: And they weren't going to get paid. And a lot of the team staff said, no, go. Like, we're okay. Like, go.
And Uchelis Papelbahn, I believe was a part of that as well as maybe as the team reps, they stepped up and said, no, we're not going to do this. He goes, we stood by like these negotiating terms from our standpoint, they need to do it on theirs. And we're on the. We're about to be on espn. And we walked in the dugout and walked right back out of the dugout.
And you know, that was a huge moment for me. You know, I actually ended up having to start that game. I was a reliever and I'm still trying to make a team, but because we couldn't start our starter, they didn't have enough time to warm up. I ended up like now getting the ball. So I'm dealing with having to make a team, having to start a game, and we're sitting out, so we're having now meetings with the ownership group before a game while this is all happening live on tv. And I realized really quickly the union doesn't just, you know, smoke and mirrors. This is helping a lot more than just players. And this is about. It's about holding the ownership to agreements and saying, hey, like, this is for everybody.
And so that kind of opened my eyes, saying, I want to be a part of this more. So once I got to the next year I was to Seattle, I was a little bit more established. I realized I had a great year. It's like, okay, I'm not just jumping team to team. I had approached the union and said, I'd love to be a part of this more. And said, Alan said, we're looking for reps. We need somebody to represent the team. I said, absolutely. I said, any way I can. And then the team approved me and allowed me.
[00:29:21] Speaker C: Is that Alan Price. Yeah.
Was a legendary legend, beloved union person for three decades.
[00:29:30] Speaker B: Every clubhouse, everywhere. The guy love Alan.
And so now then, once I got a part of that, it's like I want more, you know, because I realize what. What they do and how much more important it is than just showing up for a meeting every now and then.
And so then I got on the subcommittee and negotiating committee, and that's where I really kind of fell in love with what the union represented. And that there's so much more behind the scenes happening than you ever know about and you ever read about. Especially if you ever read about.
[00:30:02] Speaker C: It's work though, right? I mean, now you didn't have a strike or a walkout, but you're the conduit to the clubhouse. Well, as a subcommittee guy, you're one of the main conduits.
How much went into it and was it time consuming? Was it something you had to balance with your playing or how did you fit it into your routine and your just approach to the game?
[00:30:30] Speaker B: Well, one of the greatest things Michael Weiner ever said was, and he probably said a billion amazing things at how incredible he was.
Always said, our job as a union is to help the owners make decisions that's best for baseball. He goes, because the owners, as we know, there's a lot of different little groups. And it's about Getting them together all on one page and then helping them. And he goes, we're not fighting the owners. We're here to help. We're here to make baseball better. And I love that and I love that idea about it. So that's how I took every, everyone. Every time I got one of those phone calls, every time I got a, we had a meeting, every time we had emails we had to answer or, or have a meeting in the clubhouse. I looked at this as, this is bettering the sport that I grew up loving. There's business behind the sport. Like it's not just the, you're a kid and you just show up to the ballpark, get autographs and just love a day with your watching baseball. There's a real business behind this and there's lives and there's, there's families that really matter to what the union does. And as a player trying to figure out your seven and seven, trying to figure out what hotel am I allowed to do. I get meal money. What's my travel should be like? I just got sent down. What do I do? Somebody's answering that phone call every single time. And every one of those things that you're given, every negotiating thing, going through, you know, arbitration, all of those things didn't exist at one point. And players and union said, hey, these are things that need to happen to have a better, better system. And so everything that I got to take advantage of, somebody else didn't. And somebody had to give something up for that, you know, which was time or effort or time away from their family or more money in their back, you know, in their back pocket for that.
So I looked at every single call is, this is awesome. I'm going to help the next players. That was, and that was the big thing that always felt like, this isn't for me. This is for the next players, for the players right now that are playing. Every, every decision. We might not have had a strike, we might not have had a lockout, but every decision that was made in those negotiations are, are now helping players nut today and helping owners like to have a better baseball game.
You know, I'm never anti owner. I'm, I'm pro baseball, you know, so I love it. And so there was a lot of phone calls, a lot of, lot of time taken, but it was because it was. There's not a better cause in my book, like if I love baseball, this is for baseball, right?
[00:33:08] Speaker C: Did you go to salary arbitration?
[00:33:10] Speaker B: I did. I went, I went two times.
[00:33:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:14] Speaker C: What was your experience?
[00:33:16] Speaker B: A lot Better than some players. A lot. A lot easier than some players. We had a very interesting arbitration argument. Sorry. I never went to the actual meeting, so I never got to the meeting point.
[00:33:27] Speaker C: So were you with the Cubs or.
[00:33:28] Speaker B: I was with the Mariners.
[00:33:29] Speaker C: Mariners, right.
[00:33:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
Because I came up to the big league so young at the time and I had zero success for several years. And then I went straight from there to the number three in the league in saves from like, from like. So my first arbitration year was nothing. Then like then, then over 30 saves and there hadn't been a player to ever do that. And so I don't think they wanted to go sit down at a table and try to, to fight an agreement. We didn't want to fight, fight this agreement because we're pulling comps from nowhere. We're making up comps, you know, really at the time. And, and so when we're, we didn't. I don't think either side wanted to sit down and try to fight something because there wouldn't be a real, real leg to anybody to stand on. So I think the very, the first time that the, the. Everything went pretty smooth. Got paid very well, especially for out of nowhere making, making my, my season, this arbitration year huge. The next year I had another very good year. And so we had clean, really clean negotiations. I was really happy with that.
But I will say this, one thing I missed out on was sitting in that room having that or you know,
[00:34:43] Speaker C: you weren't in the room.
[00:34:44] Speaker B: I never got down to the room.
But I've heard a lot of horror stories about it. But the real reality is that's the wake up call realizing this is a business and that, hey, like, you might not like what you hear. Don't take it personal. It's not personal, it's business. But at the same time, that's that first business kind of slap across the face where I had that a lot earlier. Cause I got traded so much. This is business. I get it.
[00:35:07] Speaker C: Yeah. You didn't need to be disabused of the notion that it wasn't a fairy
[00:35:12] Speaker B: tale early, really early.
So I wish I would have gotten to have that opportunity, but again, I don't.
I got the business kind of conversation a lot earlier than a lot of players, but so I had some clean negotiations.
[00:35:29] Speaker C: You mentioned Michael Wiener, who a lot of us look back on with great fondness and more.
He was obviously a big part of the lives of a lot of players from that time.
What was your relationship like with him?
What do you remember? And obviously when he passed in 2013. You were still playing, so I assume it had a profound impact on you, too.
[00:35:54] Speaker B: Absolutely. And way too early. Way too early. And you know when people say there are people that are the smartest people in the room. He was the smartest people person in any room. He walked in, but he never made you feel like that. Made you feel special, made you feel, you know, he was. He was straight to the point. But he also made you feel like when you're talking to him, like, that's it. That's the only person in that room you're talking to.
We loved having him on our side. Thank God he wasn't on the other side.
We would have had to agree to a lot of other things that we wouldn't have wanted to agree to.
I would always say this is always the fun thing. I walked in the offices in New York one time, and that's one thing I loved, was just that the offices were open. So I just walked in one day and I knocked, and he's doing the New York Times puzzle without any of the clues.
And like, what are you doing? Just filling in blank spaces. And he goes, oh, I can figure it out by just the spaces and the words and what would fit in all these places.
And without the clues. Without the clues. And I'm like, what are you doing? I walked into Alan's office after that, Al Price and said, what's going on? She goes, yeah, he's done. He goes, whatever you think we're figuring out, he's already three steps ahead. Yeah, but he's just waiting for everybody else. He allows you and gives you the pieces to figure it out. So we're all on the same page. Page. And that was a. That was a tough day when he had passed because he was just so profound. And. And even obviously before he took over as. As the director, like, he was the. The. Like the voice behind the scenes that. That, you know, the. The voice of reason behind the scenes, you know, and long before that.
[00:37:34] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. And Michael obviously had a style that everybody talks about constantly, with flannel shirts and Chuck Taylor sneakers and bad hair and jeans.
[00:37:46] Speaker B: Not a suit to be seen.
[00:37:47] Speaker C: Not a suit and love Springsteen. And. But did you find that that made him more approachable to guys in clubhouses when he went in there?
[00:37:57] Speaker B: Absolutely. You know, one more approachable, different. But, you know, it was really just his. Is the way he was able to make everything that was complicated so simple for everybody else. And you knew the person behind it. Doesn't matter what somebody's wearing when you know the person behind it and what they represent and how strong they are for you. And that's the beauty of it. Everything he was doing was for us, and he was so strong behind it, so such a strong voice. And, like, he had an answer for every question, and he had a reason for everything. There was always a why, and it always seemed to make sense. And so when you walk in, you see this guy and you're like, no suit. Definitely different from Donald Fuhrer, but in his own way, was an amazing head of the union and was a strong leader at a time we needed. Strong leader, totally opposite in a totally different way.
But it was wonderful because you're just like, oh, yo, you're the guy. Okay? And then you listen to him and you're like, yeah, I know why. I know you're the person.
[00:39:03] Speaker C: So you actually, I assume in 2011, were in the room when they were doing the negotiations with ownership committee people.
What is it like for a player to be sitting in the middle of those talks where you're hammering out details and really discussing what's going to go into the next cba?
[00:39:24] Speaker B: Absolutely. We sat down. It was Jerry Reinsdorf. It was Artie Moreno was the head of their side, and then Manfred was the lead negotiator.
Wasn't the head, you know, wasn't the commissioner at the time.
So when you walk in that room, probably the worst thing that probably could have ever happened was I know Jerry from playing for the White Sox, and Jerry knew me and my family very well, and we kind of connected a little bit. He's asking me at the table about my family and my sister, my parents.
Well, everybody's, like, on tents, on the pins and needles, and I'm like, archeri, great to see you.
So it was a little tough at the beginning when he brings up family, and I think that was definitely a smart move on his part.
[00:40:10] Speaker C: But bit of a ploy.
[00:40:11] Speaker B: Oh, ploy. Maybe just to kind of relax everything, I think maybe a ploy maybe just to get everybody to look at me for half a second instead of at them and sitting down for negotiations. We were very lucky, though. Those were much calmer negotiations. There was obviously the.
There was always rumors about a cap, and there was always something in conversation, but it never got to the point where, obviously, much stronger communication about that type now and a lot more stronger stance. Union always had a stance on it, and, you know, ownership just wasn't. That wasn't their main focus at the time. There was a lot more draft focus, a lot More international focus in those conversations. And so we knew that, you know, like the conversations were going to be much calmer and much easier. It's never easy, but much more of a flow. And each conversation, there's growth and there's time and you don't realize how many different communications there are, how many times you sit down and talk. I always thought it was like one big meeting and that's where everything gets hashed out. And that's why there's big fights. It's time and months and phone calls and, and sit downs and face to face. And I think the one time Reinstorf got bit by a scorpion so couldn't come to the meeting or. Yeah, so there's a lot of interesting things that happen, but you still have to go through these meetings.
But I love that sit down. I love that face to face and showing solidarity as a group and making sure that was one thing Michael Wehner always talked about.
Whatever decision we make, we're making it as a group, but we have to show solidarity. And we're one voice.
One voice. While there might be a lot of conversations behind where one voice, no matter who's saying it, and that really, that really like locked me in and sitting down and having to have those conversations where you're all representing, you know, the 800 people behind you. And that's never easy as somebody in those meetings is. It's not just me. In my opinion, I'm representing 800 players.
It's a lot of pressure. But again, you know, as long as there's great communication, as long as your players are on your side and you guys are all as one, then it's easy.
[00:42:17] Speaker C: As a new CBA comes and there'll be more.
If you were standing in front of a bunch of young kids just getting into baseball and trying to pass along your experience about things that they should think about in terms of their career and how to help the game in general. What advice would you give them?
[00:42:38] Speaker B: So one thing that we were always kind of told, and I know sometimes it might be a lot, it might feel like you're being told a lot. Never forget that players before you, what they sacrificed for the next generation. It's always about the next generation. You don't know what it's going to look like in 50 years. I don't know what Major League Baseball is going to look like in 20.
So recognize that there were groups of players before you that stood on a, stood on the ground and stood their, their backs against the wall somewhere to get us to this place now, never forget that. At the same time, do it for the next generation. Do it for the. You're not making these negotiations for you. You're making them for baseball in 15 years.
You know, the next. The player in 20 years.
So never forget that. Never forget that. That's. Those negotiations aren't for you and for the 800 behind you. There are some that will be directly effective, but it's really about the next 10 years and 15 years.
I would also say don't listen to the noise. Don't listen to what media is telling you. Don't listen to what. What everybody talks about.
Get into real conversations with the unit. Get real conversations in those rooms when they have the players rep meetings and ask the questions, why don't we believe in a cap? Or why do we believe that.
That salary arbitration should be the way it is? Or how did we get here and understand there's a lot more behind that.
Cap's the word we all use now. But there's a reason why it is right now. There's been a lot of years, whatever it is, 60 years almost, probably right now, of conversations about a cap.
This has grown to a point. Or when you're talking about your insurance or you're talking about your pension mentioned is really the reason why this even started. So, you know, free agency. Have these conversations about why. How did we get to this point? Why is it important that this is here and not just listen to because.
Ask the question.
And like, when somebody should. When somebody should ask you, you should be able to have that answer for that. Because if to be one voice, to be one solid unit, you have to know the why and you have to believe in it.
So don't listen to the noise. Find out for yourself those answers. And then the decisions you guys make, make it together. And that's the biggest thing is together.
Because it doesn't matter who's on the other side of the table. If you're one solid group, one voice, no one can break you.
[00:45:08] Speaker C: The one thing I did want to ask, in conclusion was we talked about this a little bit earlier.
Was one of the joys of playing for eight franchises, or how many is all the amazing hall of Fame players and characters that you come across and you rattled off a list, but it's pretty incredible list, right?
[00:45:29] Speaker B: It's pretty incredible. And then, like, you end up having to face all these guys. That's the hard part. But playing with them, I mean, God, some of the greatest players I've ever played with, you know, talking about, like, Barry Bonds and Jason Dr. Schmidt, who doesn't get enough respect for how good he was at that time. Greg Maddox, Ramas Ramirez, Zambrano with the Cubs, Derek Lee. I'm gonna forget a million different people. Like Jim to Mark Burley. Oh, man, Mark Burley. You know, you move on like the. The Red Sox, you know, like Amanda Ramirez, Papi Pedroia, you know, God, the million different people. The Yankees, you know, Jeter, a Rod, Mariano Posada, Pettit.
There's a couple guys, you know, there. And then, you know, it was absolutely amazing.
[00:46:18] Speaker C: And then Ichiro.
[00:46:19] Speaker B: Oh, God, Mares Ichiro. You're talking about Griffey, you know, Felix Hernandez, some of the greatest.
Adrian Beltray. You know, what you notice, though, is when you're around these players, when you're around these different guys, just how much they love the game and just like showing up every day is a joy, you know, get to talk to Griffey still on a decently regular basis and just joy for life. Enjoy. For baseball. And yeah, it's amazing.
[00:46:47] Speaker C: And now you're in the media, right?
[00:46:50] Speaker B: Yeah, now I'm having to call them, ask questions.
[00:46:52] Speaker C: Yeah, right, right.
[00:46:53] Speaker B: That's always fun being on the back end and realize when you're walking the locker room how awkward it is to walk up to somebody's locker and how weird that feeling is. And it doesn't feel right, but you have to do it and you have to ask a question. That's always a fun one.
[00:47:12] Speaker A: Thanks to David Aardsma for sharing his time and his career story.
This has been an episode of Stitch by Stitch, connecting players from the past, present and future. This episode was written and produced by Jerry Krasnick with research and production support from Pablo Ocariz, Pablo Bauza, Jordan Score and Eva Amrez. This episode was edited and mixed by Mark Levine with additional video editing from David Hattie and Michael Scribonia. Our supervising producer was Rachel Gross.
Emily Kless provided art direction and media strategy, and our executive producers were Roz Guevara and Gretchen Mueller. The Stitch by Stitch podcast is an MLBPA Audio original.
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